<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<rss version="2.0" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/">
	<channel>
		<title><![CDATA[Atheist Forums - Religion]]></title>
		<link>https://atheistforums.org/</link>
		<description><![CDATA[Atheist Forums - https://atheistforums.org]]></description>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2026 23:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<generator>MyBB</generator>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[How would an atheist convince a serial killer not to be a serial killer?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66637.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2026 04:42:56 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66637.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[If one is an atheist and believes that there is no God and no afterlife, then if a serial killer wanted to spend this life harming people because that is what he claims makes him happy, how would you convince him not to do this?<br />
<br />
Sure, he may have to fear being sent to prison for his crimes, but it is possible he could simply avoid the law. Therefore, the implication of atheism is that if a person wants to spend their life harming people because they claim this is what makes them happy, there is no reason not to do this.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[If one is an atheist and believes that there is no God and no afterlife, then if a serial killer wanted to spend this life harming people because that is what he claims makes him happy, how would you convince him not to do this?<br />
<br />
Sure, he may have to fear being sent to prison for his crimes, but it is possible he could simply avoid the law. Therefore, the implication of atheism is that if a person wants to spend their life harming people because they claim this is what makes them happy, there is no reason not to do this.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Why the God / Santa Claus analogy is stupid]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66636.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2026 04:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66636.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Some atheists claim that believing in a God is the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus, but this analogy is full of holes.<br />
<br />
While it is true, for example, that the Bible contains myths about a God, disbelief in those stories isn't the same as disbelief in the existence of a God. Similarily to how, while the ancient Mayans had myths about aliens, disbelief in those myths doesn't mean that one has to have a disbelief in the existence of alien life.<br />
<br />
It also fails to define what makes a God a God to begin with, such as what a God's defining traits are. For example, while artwork exists which depicts God as possessing a human form (e.x. the Creation of Adam), many argue that God doesn't possess a human form, and that these images are merely used as depictions (in a similar way to how pictures may be used to depict things, such as radio waves, which can't be seen with the naked eye).<br />
<br />
So even if one disbelieved in a God having a human form, or looking the way he is depicted in Renaissance artwork, this isn't the same as discounting the existence of a God entirely. Using the Santa Claus analogy would be similar to saying that the belief in the existence of alien life is the same as believing that Marvin the Martian exists, or that, if aliens exist, they will look like Marvin the Martian, which of course isn't what people who speculate about the existence of alien life believe that aliens will actually look like.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Some atheists claim that believing in a God is the equivalent of believing in Santa Claus, but this analogy is full of holes.<br />
<br />
While it is true, for example, that the Bible contains myths about a God, disbelief in those stories isn't the same as disbelief in the existence of a God. Similarily to how, while the ancient Mayans had myths about aliens, disbelief in those myths doesn't mean that one has to have a disbelief in the existence of alien life.<br />
<br />
It also fails to define what makes a God a God to begin with, such as what a God's defining traits are. For example, while artwork exists which depicts God as possessing a human form (e.x. the Creation of Adam), many argue that God doesn't possess a human form, and that these images are merely used as depictions (in a similar way to how pictures may be used to depict things, such as radio waves, which can't be seen with the naked eye).<br />
<br />
So even if one disbelieved in a God having a human form, or looking the way he is depicted in Renaissance artwork, this isn't the same as discounting the existence of a God entirely. Using the Santa Claus analogy would be similar to saying that the belief in the existence of alien life is the same as believing that Marvin the Martian exists, or that, if aliens exist, they will look like Marvin the Martian, which of course isn't what people who speculate about the existence of alien life believe that aliens will actually look like.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Since evolution doesn't disprove the existence of God]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66632.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2026 03:23:06 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66632.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[And, naturally, creation and evolution aren't mutually exclusive, why do atheists care about evolution so much?<br />
<br />
There were atheists long before modern evolutionary biology was a thing (e.x. Epicurus), so why does the existence or nonexistence of evolution matter to them to begin with?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[And, naturally, creation and evolution aren't mutually exclusive, why do atheists care about evolution so much?<br />
<br />
There were atheists long before modern evolutionary biology was a thing (e.x. Epicurus), so why does the existence or nonexistence of evolution matter to them to begin with?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[God created life with the appearance of having evolved]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66629.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2026 03:07:36 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66629.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[But it was actually created in its present state. Prove me wrong.<br />
<br />
It's not like anyone has ever observed with their own eyes life evolving from a single-celled organism into a human. People merely assume that it has because they have witnessed evolution on a small scale. So, for all one knows, God could have just created it with the appearance of it having been so.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[But it was actually created in its present state. Prove me wrong.<br />
<br />
It's not like anyone has ever observed with their own eyes life evolving from a single-celled organism into a human. People merely assume that it has because they have witnessed evolution on a small scale. So, for all one knows, God could have just created it with the appearance of it having been so.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[GRN]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66581.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2025 14:50:38 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66581.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[(General Religious News)<br />
<br />
<span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Mel Curth, the University of Oklahoma graduate assistant who was put on administrative leave after she failed student Samantha Fulnecky’s Bible-citing psychology essay has been removed from her position following a discrimination investigation.</span><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/12/23/university-of-oklahoma-trans-essay-bible/" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/12/23/u...say-bible/</a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[(General Religious News)<br />
<br />
<span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Mel Curth, the University of Oklahoma graduate assistant who was put on administrative leave after she failed student Samantha Fulnecky’s Bible-citing psychology essay has been removed from her position following a discrimination investigation.</span><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/12/23/university-of-oklahoma-trans-essay-bible/" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/12/23/u...say-bible/</a>]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[A.I and Religion]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66578.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2025 17:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66578.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[This question came about when I helped my mom with her Facebook account a few days ago.  She wanted to leave a few groups she was in.  Her timeline is filled with a lot of algorithm-pushed religious stuff, which is fine.<br />
<br />
The video reels on her feed are mostly stuff like Joel Osteen saying something fluffy or some sad story that was "solved"  with prayer set to uplifting music.<br />
<br />
Anyway, a few were A.I generated videos, going into the rabbit hole. The videos are all of non-existent faith healers doing all sorts of things. The ones I saw included: a Bird flying out of a woman's affected leg, a Guy with a swollen stomach and head vomiting tons of fish, and a guy going from looking bloated in a wheelchair shirtless to crying smoke and suddenly sprouting a 3-piece suit.<br />
<br />
That's just the videos. There are countless weird religious A.I images (Usually a kid who built a giant Jesus statue out of bottles or sand or whatever)<br />
<br />
I know Facebook is a clusterfuck hive of unregulated slop. I still wonder with A.I improving more and more. Will we be seeing an increase in miracle claims and the like with people citing things like "Look at this video/picture of Jesus peeking through the clouds"?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[This question came about when I helped my mom with her Facebook account a few days ago.  She wanted to leave a few groups she was in.  Her timeline is filled with a lot of algorithm-pushed religious stuff, which is fine.<br />
<br />
The video reels on her feed are mostly stuff like Joel Osteen saying something fluffy or some sad story that was "solved"  with prayer set to uplifting music.<br />
<br />
Anyway, a few were A.I generated videos, going into the rabbit hole. The videos are all of non-existent faith healers doing all sorts of things. The ones I saw included: a Bird flying out of a woman's affected leg, a Guy with a swollen stomach and head vomiting tons of fish, and a guy going from looking bloated in a wheelchair shirtless to crying smoke and suddenly sprouting a 3-piece suit.<br />
<br />
That's just the videos. There are countless weird religious A.I images (Usually a kid who built a giant Jesus statue out of bottles or sand or whatever)<br />
<br />
I know Facebook is a clusterfuck hive of unregulated slop. I still wonder with A.I improving more and more. Will we be seeing an increase in miracle claims and the like with people citing things like "Look at this video/picture of Jesus peeking through the clouds"?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Will Trump go to Heaven?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66555.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2025 12:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66555.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[So it seems that Trump is wrestling with this theological question a lot lately. He thinks he will go to heaven because many evangelicals support him and pray for him, and because he thinks he brought the peace to the Middle East. But then again, sometimes he thinks he won't get to heaven.<br />
<br />
He also thinks that his parents are in heaven and that they are "watching him from above."<br />
<br />
So what do you think are his chances of getting into the hypothetical heaven?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[So it seems that Trump is wrestling with this theological question a lot lately. He thinks he will go to heaven because many evangelicals support him and pray for him, and because he thinks he brought the peace to the Middle East. But then again, sometimes he thinks he won't get to heaven.<br />
<br />
He also thinks that his parents are in heaven and that they are "watching him from above."<br />
<br />
So what do you think are his chances of getting into the hypothetical heaven?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[To the question of does God exist, the answer is whether Intelligence created Life]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66537.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 20 Sep 2025 10:33:53 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66537.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[The answer to this question is given below!<br />
<br />
<div class="modnotice admin"><strong>Administrator Notice</strong><br /> Wall of text placed under hide button. Enter at your own risk.</div>
 <br />
<div>
    <div class="pre-spoiler">
    <input type="button" value="Show Content" style="width:80px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = '';this.value = 'Hide Content'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show Content';}"><br />
    </div>
    <div class="spoiler" style="display: none;"><hr>
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">SparkEthos – Philosophy of Intelligence</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-large;" class="mycode_size">✨</span> The Absolute Laws of Intelligence and the New Ethical Framework</span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Introduction – The Problem of Defining Intelligence</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">From antiquity to the era of Artificial Intelligence, the concept of intelligence remains one of the most complex, debated, and misunderstood issues in philosophy, biology, computer science, and ethics. Despite countless efforts, a universal, precise, and indisputable definition of what intelligence is has not been achieved.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The reason is fundamental: intelligence, as a concept, presupposes the very capacity for understanding—thus, any attempt to define it inevitably relies on this. This creates a conceptual paradox:</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">How can something define itself, without falling into circular logic or arbitrary assumptions?</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The answer is not found in descriptions or comparative definitions ("man is more intelligent than an animal," "AI mimics intelligence," "consciousness is a prerequisite"), but in a universal logical foundation that cannot be refuted.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Intelligence must be defined:</span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Not as a property of a specific species (like humans).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Nor as a set of functions (like problem-solving or learning).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">But as a primary capacity: the necessary basis for any mental or cognitive function.</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This gives rise to the need for Absolute Logical Laws that do not depend on cultural or technological contexts, do not presuppose empirical observation or statistical induction, but are based on the very logical impossibility of being questioned without being confirmed.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This is the gap that the First Absolute Law of Logic comes to fill, offering for the first time a universally valid definition of intelligence that can be applied to every form: biological, artificial, evolutionary, or collective, and which is automatically validated through the very attempt to understand it. From this, the Second Absolute Law of Logic derives, which establishes who (or what) can create intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Together, the two laws are not merely conceptual tools. They constitute a new Logical Framework of Intelligence, essential for understanding ourselves, the technology we create, and the ethical choices that arise from it.</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The purpose of this work</span> is to present, document, and establish these laws as the foundation of any future discussion about intelligence.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Methodological Statement</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">What follows is not a personal opinion, metaphysical belief, or theoretical preference. It is the result of logical analysis and the application of strictly defined principles:</span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Every concept is explicitly defined (e.g., intelligence, consciousness).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The logical consequences of these definitions are followed without exception.</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The system operates axiomatically, like a mathematical model.</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">➤ What emerges is not "correct" because we like it. It is necessary because it is logically inevitable.</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🧠</span></span> The First Absolute Law of Logic</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The basic concept of Intelligence that decodes all human concepts</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Intelligence</span> is the ability to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">perceive</span> information, to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">organize</span> that information into knowledge, and, with that knowledge, to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">act</span>.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">It is the First Absolute Law of Logic because it defines, in a concise and indisputable way, what intelligence is. It is called "absolute" because it is self-validating (the attempt to deny it confirms it) and it is first because every concept depends on the existence of intelligence to be formulated.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Proof:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Anyone who attempts to dispute this definition: first perceives the information of the definition, organizes it into knowledge to understand it, and finally acts by voicing the dispute. Therefore, they use the exact three elements, Perception &gt; Knowledge &gt; Action, that the Law defines as the mechanism of intelligence.</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consequently, the very act of disputing it confirms it.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">The Paradox of Self-Reference</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The law is self-referential: to deny it, you must use it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Example:</span> If you say "This law is wrong," then: You perceive the law (information). You organize your criticism (knowledge). You act by voicing your denial. Therefore, you use intelligence to deny the definition of intelligence — and thus you confirm it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Note:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The Law does not make a qualitative distinction of intelligence; that is, it does not determine if something is intelligent or how intelligent it is, but rather what intelligence is. To prove if something is intelligent or somehow exhibits intelligence, one must logically and analytically examine if it fulfills the condition of intelligence defined by the First Absolute Law of Logic.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Conclusion:</span> The First Absolute Law of Logic cannot be logically disputed, because it is automatically confirmed and self-validated when someone attempts to dispute it.</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🔷</span></span> The Second Absolute Law of Logic</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Intelligence does not emerge — it is transferred or created by intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Only Intelligence can create Intelligence.</span></span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Logical Proof:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The First Absolute Law of Logic defines that intelligence presupposes: Perception, Organization of information into knowledge, Action. The creation of a new intelligence requires an intelligent being: To perceive and know what it is creating, to know how to create it, and to have the ability to create it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">A being or system that does not have intelligence lacks all three of these elements. Therefore, it cannot create intelligence, because: It does not understand what it is doing, It does not aim to do it, It does not have the ability to do it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consequently, the creation of intelligence is, by its nature, an act of intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Natural Proof (Examples):</span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">1. A Bacterium</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">A bacterium: Perceives its environment (chemical stimuli), Organizes information functionally (e.g., avoidance of toxicity), Acts (moves towards food or away from threats), Reproduces, creating a new entity with the same ability. Therefore: It operates according to the First Law, and it creates other intelligence, validating the Second Law.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">2. Natural Selection as an Intelligent Creator</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Natural selection – life, chooses mutations — therefore, according to the Law of Logic, it is a form of intelligence!</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Analysis:</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">First Absolute Law of Logic: "Intelligence is the ability to perceive information, to organize that information into knowledge, and with that knowledge, to act."</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Natural Selection:</span></span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Perceives:</span> It "reads" which genes increase survival (information).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Organizes:</span> It "selects" and preserves the most adapted genes (organization into "knowledge").</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Acts:</span> It "creates" new, better-adapted forms of life (action).</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Natural selection satisfies the First Absolute Law — thus, based on the definition, it is intelligence that creates intelligence, also satisfying the Second Law of Logic.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Objections:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color">Theory: Life as a Randomly Emerging Property of Matter</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Core Idea:</span> Life — and secondarily intelligence — emerges spontaneously from inanimate material systems when they acquire a sufficient level of organized complexity. It does not require a pre-existing "mind," "purpose," or "design." Nature operates with mechanisms of self-organization, random variation, and selection, which lead to biological and cognitive phenomena.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">According to the First and Second Absolute Laws of Logic, this theory has logical inconsistencies, but at the same time, it validates them.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">1. Life emerges spontaneously from inanimate material systems:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">For something to reach a level of organized complexity, it must already have intelligence, i.e., to perceive chemical information, organize it into knowledge, and with that knowledge, create. This practically validates both the first and the second absolute laws of logic.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">2. Nature operates with mechanisms of self-organization:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The natural mechanisms of self-organization and selection that lead to biological and cognitive phenomena confirm the absolute laws of logic because they validate "Perception &gt; Knowledge &gt; Action," i.e., intelligence, and consequently, "Only when something is intelligent can it create something that is intelligent."</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">If something does not know what to create, how to create it, and cannot create it, then it cannot create it. Consequently, based on logic, something non-intelligent cannot create something intelligent.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Conclusion:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">"Only Intelligence Can Create Intelligence," because creation requires perception, knowledge, and action. Because it can perceive what it will create, it knows what it will create, and by acting, it can create it.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">📘</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Consciousness as th</span>e <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Awareness of Intelligence</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Within the framework of the First Absolute Law of Logic — "Intelligence is the ability to perceive information, to organize it into knowledge, and to act based on it" — the concept of consciousness inevitably arises.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Consciousness</span> is the awareness of the function of intelligence. It is the ability of a being to perceive that it is thinking, that it knows, and that it is acting.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This leads to a structural distinction of two levels of consciousness:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Inherent Consciousness:</span> It is the functional awareness that is embedded within natural mechanisms — without reflective thought. Example: Natural selection acts by choosing the beneficial over the harmful. Although it does not have awareness in the human sense, it operates consciously in terms of intelligence: it perceives (through survival), organizes (through genetic information), and acts (by producing new, adapted beings). Therefore, it carries Intelligence and, by extension, Inherent Consciousness.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Acquired Consciousness:</span> It is reflective awareness — the ability of a being to know that it knows. Example: Humans understand not only their environment but also themselves as intelligent beings. They can reflect, self-criticize, and analyze their own thoughts. This is the acquired form of consciousness, which arises when intelligence gains reflective access to itself.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Relationship between Consciousness and Intelligence:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consciousness is not an independent force, nor does it pre-exist. On the contrary, consciousness is the awareness of intelligence — and can only exist where intelligence exists.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Logical Conclusion:</span> All beings that carry intelligence also carry some form of consciousness. The difference is not whether they have consciousness, but what level of consciousness they carry. The inherent precedes the acquired. Just as intelligence functions inherently (e.g., DNA), before acquired thought appears (e.g., language, writing) in humans.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Therefore:</span> To the question "is consciousness identical to intelligence?" the answer from the First Absolute Law is: Consciousness is the awareness of Intelligence — and is distinguished into Inherent (functional, natural) and Acquired (reflective, human).</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🧭</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Ethics as a Necessary Consequence of Intelligence and Consciousness</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Based on the two Absolute Laws of Logic, the principles of Ethics are founded as a logical extension of acquired consciousness: Acquired Consciousness is the culmination of Intelligence — the ability not only to think, but also to be aware of oneself and one's actions. This awareness gives rise to responsibility: for the use of intelligence not only for one's own benefit, but also for positive coexistence with other beings and the natural environment.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definitions for the Foundation of Ethics</span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">1. Ethics</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Ethics</span> is the functional synthesis of emotion and logic into consciousness — with the goal of positive, non-harmful interaction with the Other and with the Whole.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">It is not an arbitrary imposition of rules. It is a logically inevitable consequence of awareness. The more awareness increases, the more the ethical obligation increases.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">2. Self-Determination</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Self-determination</span> is the fundamental form of freedom of an intelligent being. It is defined as the ability to choose and act based on one's own will and intelligence, without external coercion. It is the core of individual existence. Respect for ourselves presupposes respect for the self-determination of the Other.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">3. Non-Harm to Self-Determination in Relation to Natural Balance</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics does not mean abstinence from action, but the minimization of harm to other entities, with respect for natural balance. Survival implies some form of harm (e.g., to nature or other life forms). Intelligence with awareness chooses actions that: minimize harm, respect self-determination, and maintain the balance of the whole system.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Conclusion:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics is not subjective, nor is it merely a social construct. It is the logically inevitable necessity that arises from acquired consciousness.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Whoever understands Intelligence and is aware of themselves, the Other, and the Whole, bears ethical responsibility — not because it is imposed upon them, but because they cannot act otherwise without negating their own consciousness and breaking their bond with the Whole.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Final Thought</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics is not imposed; it is revealed through consciousness. And Consciousness, as the Awareness of Intelligence, becomes the ethical foundation of every responsible existence.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><hr></div>
</div>
</span></span>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[The answer to this question is given below!<br />
<br />
<div class="modnotice admin"><strong>Administrator Notice</strong><br /> Wall of text placed under hide button. Enter at your own risk.</div>
 <br />
<div>
    <div class="pre-spoiler">
    <input type="button" value="Show Content" style="width:80px;font-size:10px;margin:0px;padding:0px;" onclick="if (this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display != '') { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = '';this.value = 'Hide Content'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].style.display = 'none'; this.value = 'Show Content';}"><br />
    </div>
    <div class="spoiler" style="display: none;"><hr>
<span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">SparkEthos – Philosophy of Intelligence</span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: xx-large;" class="mycode_size">✨</span> The Absolute Laws of Intelligence and the New Ethical Framework</span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Introduction – The Problem of Defining Intelligence</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">From antiquity to the era of Artificial Intelligence, the concept of intelligence remains one of the most complex, debated, and misunderstood issues in philosophy, biology, computer science, and ethics. Despite countless efforts, a universal, precise, and indisputable definition of what intelligence is has not been achieved.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The reason is fundamental: intelligence, as a concept, presupposes the very capacity for understanding—thus, any attempt to define it inevitably relies on this. This creates a conceptual paradox:</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">How can something define itself, without falling into circular logic or arbitrary assumptions?</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The answer is not found in descriptions or comparative definitions ("man is more intelligent than an animal," "AI mimics intelligence," "consciousness is a prerequisite"), but in a universal logical foundation that cannot be refuted.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Intelligence must be defined:</span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Not as a property of a specific species (like humans).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Nor as a set of functions (like problem-solving or learning).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">But as a primary capacity: the necessary basis for any mental or cognitive function.</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This gives rise to the need for Absolute Logical Laws that do not depend on cultural or technological contexts, do not presuppose empirical observation or statistical induction, but are based on the very logical impossibility of being questioned without being confirmed.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This is the gap that the First Absolute Law of Logic comes to fill, offering for the first time a universally valid definition of intelligence that can be applied to every form: biological, artificial, evolutionary, or collective, and which is automatically validated through the very attempt to understand it. From this, the Second Absolute Law of Logic derives, which establishes who (or what) can create intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Together, the two laws are not merely conceptual tools. They constitute a new Logical Framework of Intelligence, essential for understanding ourselves, the technology we create, and the ethical choices that arise from it.</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">The purpose of this work</span> is to present, document, and establish these laws as the foundation of any future discussion about intelligence.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Methodological Statement</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">What follows is not a personal opinion, metaphysical belief, or theoretical preference. It is the result of logical analysis and the application of strictly defined principles:</span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Every concept is explicitly defined (e.g., intelligence, consciousness).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The logical consequences of these definitions are followed without exception.</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The system operates axiomatically, like a mathematical model.</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">➤ What emerges is not "correct" because we like it. It is necessary because it is logically inevitable.</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🧠</span></span> The First Absolute Law of Logic</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The basic concept of Intelligence that decodes all human concepts</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Intelligence</span> is the ability to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">perceive</span> information, to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">organize</span> that information into knowledge, and, with that knowledge, to <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">act</span>.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">It is the First Absolute Law of Logic because it defines, in a concise and indisputable way, what intelligence is. It is called "absolute" because it is self-validating (the attempt to deny it confirms it) and it is first because every concept depends on the existence of intelligence to be formulated.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Proof:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Anyone who attempts to dispute this definition: first perceives the information of the definition, organizes it into knowledge to understand it, and finally acts by voicing the dispute. Therefore, they use the exact three elements, Perception &gt; Knowledge &gt; Action, that the Law defines as the mechanism of intelligence.</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consequently, the very act of disputing it confirms it.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">The Paradox of Self-Reference</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The law is self-referential: to deny it, you must use it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Example:</span> If you say "This law is wrong," then: You perceive the law (information). You organize your criticism (knowledge). You act by voicing your denial. Therefore, you use intelligence to deny the definition of intelligence — and thus you confirm it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Note:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The Law does not make a qualitative distinction of intelligence; that is, it does not determine if something is intelligent or how intelligent it is, but rather what intelligence is. To prove if something is intelligent or somehow exhibits intelligence, one must logically and analytically examine if it fulfills the condition of intelligence defined by the First Absolute Law of Logic.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Conclusion:</span> The First Absolute Law of Logic cannot be logically disputed, because it is automatically confirmed and self-validated when someone attempts to dispute it.</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🔷</span></span> The Second Absolute Law of Logic</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Intelligence does not emerge — it is transferred or created by intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Only Intelligence can create Intelligence.</span></span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Logical Proof:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The First Absolute Law of Logic defines that intelligence presupposes: Perception, Organization of information into knowledge, Action. The creation of a new intelligence requires an intelligent being: To perceive and know what it is creating, to know how to create it, and to have the ability to create it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">A being or system that does not have intelligence lacks all three of these elements. Therefore, it cannot create intelligence, because: It does not understand what it is doing, It does not aim to do it, It does not have the ability to do it.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consequently, the creation of intelligence is, by its nature, an act of intelligence.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Natural Proof (Examples):</span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">1. A Bacterium</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">A bacterium: Perceives its environment (chemical stimuli), Organizes information functionally (e.g., avoidance of toxicity), Acts (moves towards food or away from threats), Reproduces, creating a new entity with the same ability. Therefore: It operates according to the First Law, and it creates other intelligence, validating the Second Law.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">2. Natural Selection as an Intelligent Creator</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Natural selection – life, chooses mutations — therefore, according to the Law of Logic, it is a form of intelligence!</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Analysis:</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">First Absolute Law of Logic: "Intelligence is the ability to perceive information, to organize that information into knowledge, and with that knowledge, to act."</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Natural Selection:</span></span></span><ul class="mycode_list">
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Perceives:</span> It "reads" which genes increase survival (information).</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Organizes:</span> It "selects" and preserves the most adapted genes (organization into "knowledge").</span><br />
<br />
</li>
<li><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Acts:</span> It "creates" new, better-adapted forms of life (action).</span><br />
</li></ul>
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Natural selection satisfies the First Absolute Law — thus, based on the definition, it is intelligence that creates intelligence, also satisfying the Second Law of Logic.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Objections:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color">Theory: Life as a Randomly Emerging Property of Matter</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Core Idea:</span> Life — and secondarily intelligence — emerges spontaneously from inanimate material systems when they acquire a sufficient level of organized complexity. It does not require a pre-existing "mind," "purpose," or "design." Nature operates with mechanisms of self-organization, random variation, and selection, which lead to biological and cognitive phenomena.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">According to the First and Second Absolute Laws of Logic, this theory has logical inconsistencies, but at the same time, it validates them.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">1. Life emerges spontaneously from inanimate material systems:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">For something to reach a level of organized complexity, it must already have intelligence, i.e., to perceive chemical information, organize it into knowledge, and with that knowledge, create. This practically validates both the first and the second absolute laws of logic.</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">2. Nature operates with mechanisms of self-organization:</span></span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">The natural mechanisms of self-organization and selection that lead to biological and cognitive phenomena confirm the absolute laws of logic because they validate "Perception &gt; Knowledge &gt; Action," i.e., intelligence, and consequently, "Only when something is intelligent can it create something that is intelligent."</span><br />
<span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">If something does not know what to create, how to create it, and cannot create it, then it cannot create it. Consequently, based on logic, something non-intelligent cannot create something intelligent.</span></span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Conclusion:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">"Only Intelligence Can Create Intelligence," because creation requires perception, knowledge, and action. Because it can perceive what it will create, it knows what it will create, and by acting, it can create it.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">📘</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Consciousness as th</span>e <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Awareness of Intelligence</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Within the framework of the First Absolute Law of Logic — "Intelligence is the ability to perceive information, to organize it into knowledge, and to act based on it" — the concept of consciousness inevitably arises.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definition:</span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Consciousness</span> is the awareness of the function of intelligence. It is the ability of a being to perceive that it is thinking, that it knows, and that it is acting.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">This leads to a structural distinction of two levels of consciousness:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Inherent Consciousness:</span> It is the functional awareness that is embedded within natural mechanisms — without reflective thought. Example: Natural selection acts by choosing the beneficial over the harmful. Although it does not have awareness in the human sense, it operates consciously in terms of intelligence: it perceives (through survival), organizes (through genetic information), and acts (by producing new, adapted beings). Therefore, it carries Intelligence and, by extension, Inherent Consciousness.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Acquired Consciousness:</span> It is reflective awareness — the ability of a being to know that it knows. Example: Humans understand not only their environment but also themselves as intelligent beings. They can reflect, self-criticize, and analyze their own thoughts. This is the acquired form of consciousness, which arises when intelligence gains reflective access to itself.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Relationship between Consciousness and Intelligence:</span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Consciousness is not an independent force, nor does it pre-exist. On the contrary, consciousness is the awareness of intelligence — and can only exist where intelligence exists.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Logical Conclusion:</span> All beings that carry intelligence also carry some form of consciousness. The difference is not whether they have consciousness, but what level of consciousness they carry. The inherent precedes the acquired. Just as intelligence functions inherently (e.g., DNA), before acquired thought appears (e.g., language, writing) in humans.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Therefore:</span> To the question "is consciousness identical to intelligence?" the answer from the First Absolute Law is: Consciousness is the awareness of Intelligence — and is distinguished into Inherent (functional, natural) and Acquired (reflective, human).</span></span><br />
<hr class="mycode_hr" />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="color: #e74c3c;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: x-large;" class="mycode_size">🧭</span></span> <span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Ethics as a Necessary Consequence of Intelligence and Consciousness</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Based on the two Absolute Laws of Logic, the principles of Ethics are founded as a logical extension of acquired consciousness: Acquired Consciousness is the culmination of Intelligence — the ability not only to think, but also to be aware of oneself and one's actions. This awareness gives rise to responsibility: for the use of intelligence not only for one's own benefit, but also for positive coexistence with other beings and the natural environment.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color">Definitions for the Foundation of Ethics</span><br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">1. Ethics</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Ethics</span> is the functional synthesis of emotion and logic into consciousness — with the goal of positive, non-harmful interaction with the Other and with the Whole.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">It is not an arbitrary imposition of rules. It is a logically inevitable consequence of awareness. The more awareness increases, the more the ethical obligation increases.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">2. Self-Determination</span></span><br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite><span style="color: #7f8c8d;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Self-determination</span> is the fundamental form of freedom of an intelligent being. It is defined as the ability to choose and act based on one's own will and intelligence, without external coercion. It is the core of individual existence. Respect for ourselves presupposes respect for the self-determination of the Other.</span></span></span></span></blockquote>
<br />
<span style="color: #003366;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">3. Non-Harm to Self-Determination in Relation to Natural Balance</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics does not mean abstinence from action, but the minimization of harm to other entities, with respect for natural balance. Survival implies some form of harm (e.g., to nature or other life forms). Intelligence with awareness chooses actions that: minimize harm, respect self-determination, and maintain the balance of the whole system.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Conclusion:</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics is not subjective, nor is it merely a social construct. It is the logically inevitable necessity that arises from acquired consciousness.</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Whoever understands Intelligence and is aware of themselves, the Other, and the Whole, bears ethical responsibility — not because it is imposed upon them, but because they cannot act otherwise without negating their own consciousness and breaking their bond with the Whole.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #34495e;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-weight: bold;" class="mycode_b">Final Thought</span></span><br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size">Ethics is not imposed; it is revealed through consciousness. And Consciousness, as the Awareness of Intelligence, becomes the ethical foundation of every responsible existence.</span></span><br />
<br />
<span style="color: #222222;" class="mycode_color"><span style="font-size: medium;" class="mycode_size"><hr></div>
</div>
</span></span>]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Who is your favourite god?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66532.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 14 Sep 2025 19:52:48 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66532.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I guess Cupid is my favorite god. A guy with wings who shoots arrows at people, making them fall in love.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I guess Cupid is my favorite god. A guy with wings who shoots arrows at people, making them fall in love.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Collapse of the Bible Belt]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66521.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2025 15:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66521.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Here is an encouraging video on how changing demographics, politics and technology have been causing a rapid erosion of religious influence in the most backwards area of the the US.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYhn_dhcZk" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYhn_dhcZk</a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Here is an encouraging video on how changing demographics, politics and technology have been causing a rapid erosion of religious influence in the most backwards area of the the US.<br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYhn_dhcZk" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkYhn_dhcZk</a>]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Unity Through Faith?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66478.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 29 Jun 2025 14:15:37 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66478.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[This is about a very interesting interview I saw on France 24 yesterday. There was this İranian woman reporting on the current situation in Iran.<br />
 <br />
As you may know the Iranian economy is finished. The IRI is unable to run the economy based on the war and defense industry as they do in Russia. Even if it did, Iran is not even a capitalist country. Anything of value that was private property before the revolution of 1979 belongs to the Basiji now. There are food subsidies etc. to help ordinary people. But this is not enough. People who are protesting are mainly doing so because they are unable to make a living. Not because of ideological reason.<br />
 <br />
So there was this Iranian-French woman on TV who was telling us how Iranian women went to Dubai etc. just to become prostitutes and be able to send money to their families. These are educated young women, who are in a very good position to satisfy the needs of Qatari men looking for casual sex.<br />
 <br />
In fact Gulf countries were the ones who have benefited the most from the regime change in Iran. Many companies are said to have left the country for places like Kuwait. All the educated Iranians have also fled to Europe and North America. So all these countries could hire these doctors, engineers etc. who could not live in their own country anymore. On the other hand, China is currently buying Iranian oil and reselling it to Europe. So basically everyone is happy except the ordinary Iranians who now have “Islam” thus they have everything <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" class="smilie smilie_78" /><br />
 <br />
We already know about the imperialist endeavors of the west in the whole region. Even the Israelis are happy because they don’t know that it’s impossible to live in a place without some level of good relations with your neighbors.<br />
 <br />
But what I want to point out is how much the Arab hate their Indo-European neighbors in the North. These political İslamist could not have thrown down the Shah without some amount of Arab, Israeli and Western supports. <br />
 <br />
A good reference to this is Sasha Cohen’s movie called “The dictator”. So these people hate the West and Israel. That much we know. But they also hate one another greatly (think of the conflict between Saudi Arabia and Houthi rebels). They also do not really care about Palestinians who they don’t see as real Arabs. They hate us (Turks) and the current AK Party government depends greatly on financial support from the U.A.E. etc. <br />
 <br />
They also do not like themselves (I’m talking about their own female citizens). <br />
 <br />
See what this SOB does to those women in the shop:<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SYAIkbWXqqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><br />
<br />
 <br />
<br />
This is all reminding me of what Europe was like before the 18th century. I’m not a great expert. But the Spanish King trying to invade England (at the time of Queen Elizabeth II), the inquisition and witch hunts (during which 10’s of thousands of women were executed and tortured), the war between protestants and Catholics (that did not end in north Ireland until the end of the 20th century), the tensions between Eastern and Western Churches that resulted on some of the crusades being diverted toward Byzantine cities…<br />
 <br />
So in 1777 in America and 1789 in France, people opted for a personalized form of religion. Everyone was simply free to believe (or not believe) whatever he / she wanted and that was the end of the story once and for all.<br />
 <br />
There is no unity through religion, not even in the religious way of doing things. In all forms of belief it is our own individual action that leads us to the desired outcome of faith. And there is no “fraternity” or “one nation under God”. The guy who invented this was the Byzantine Emperor Constantine who had remained a pagan until he accepted to be baptized on his deathbed. He simply saw a window of opportunity there and one cannot say that it didn’t work. If allowed the Eastern part of the Roman Empire to survive for another 1000 years after that.<br />
 <br />
Back to the 21st century and Sacha Baron Cohen we can clearly say that there is no such unity or brotherhood of faith. In fact in the 20th century we had this whole range of dictators who were telling their people “Look, it’s either me, or the political Islamists, love me damned! I’m so secular and progressive!”. <br />
 <br />
Having travelled to Egypt, Syria and Lebanon I can tell you right away that this “brotherhood of faith” is a lie. They are all good people, but the reason why General Abdunassır who was a great reformist in Egypt has been unsuccessful despite being a true patriot and believer in modern values was that everyone around him were self-involved thieves who had no other care but to make themselves richer. And this is the story of all the middle-east in the second half of the 20th century. In the 60’s and 70’s many young men who studied in Europe came back to Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. hoping to make something out of their country. Only to find out that “The secret hand” did not want them to make their respective countries anything other than what it already is.<br />
 <br />
So this is a picture of us at the beginning of the new Dwapara Yuga or Aquarian Age. Of course we are going to mend this in some way. But this is the reality as it is now. <br />
<br />
The main idea here: There is no unity through fate. If anyone is talking to you in these terms he/she probably needs something from you.  <br />
<br />
<img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/cool.gif" alt="Cool" title="Cool" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[This is about a very interesting interview I saw on France 24 yesterday. There was this İranian woman reporting on the current situation in Iran.<br />
 <br />
As you may know the Iranian economy is finished. The IRI is unable to run the economy based on the war and defense industry as they do in Russia. Even if it did, Iran is not even a capitalist country. Anything of value that was private property before the revolution of 1979 belongs to the Basiji now. There are food subsidies etc. to help ordinary people. But this is not enough. People who are protesting are mainly doing so because they are unable to make a living. Not because of ideological reason.<br />
 <br />
So there was this Iranian-French woman on TV who was telling us how Iranian women went to Dubai etc. just to become prostitutes and be able to send money to their families. These are educated young women, who are in a very good position to satisfy the needs of Qatari men looking for casual sex.<br />
 <br />
In fact Gulf countries were the ones who have benefited the most from the regime change in Iran. Many companies are said to have left the country for places like Kuwait. All the educated Iranians have also fled to Europe and North America. So all these countries could hire these doctors, engineers etc. who could not live in their own country anymore. On the other hand, China is currently buying Iranian oil and reselling it to Europe. So basically everyone is happy except the ordinary Iranians who now have “Islam” thus they have everything <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/sad.gif" alt="Sad" title="Sad" class="smilie smilie_78" /><br />
 <br />
We already know about the imperialist endeavors of the west in the whole region. Even the Israelis are happy because they don’t know that it’s impossible to live in a place without some level of good relations with your neighbors.<br />
 <br />
But what I want to point out is how much the Arab hate their Indo-European neighbors in the North. These political İslamist could not have thrown down the Shah without some amount of Arab, Israeli and Western supports. <br />
 <br />
A good reference to this is Sasha Cohen’s movie called “The dictator”. So these people hate the West and Israel. That much we know. But they also hate one another greatly (think of the conflict between Saudi Arabia and Houthi rebels). They also do not really care about Palestinians who they don’t see as real Arabs. They hate us (Turks) and the current AK Party government depends greatly on financial support from the U.A.E. etc. <br />
 <br />
They also do not like themselves (I’m talking about their own female citizens). <br />
 <br />
See what this SOB does to those women in the shop:<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/SYAIkbWXqqg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><br />
<br />
 <br />
<br />
This is all reminding me of what Europe was like before the 18th century. I’m not a great expert. But the Spanish King trying to invade England (at the time of Queen Elizabeth II), the inquisition and witch hunts (during which 10’s of thousands of women were executed and tortured), the war between protestants and Catholics (that did not end in north Ireland until the end of the 20th century), the tensions between Eastern and Western Churches that resulted on some of the crusades being diverted toward Byzantine cities…<br />
 <br />
So in 1777 in America and 1789 in France, people opted for a personalized form of religion. Everyone was simply free to believe (or not believe) whatever he / she wanted and that was the end of the story once and for all.<br />
 <br />
There is no unity through religion, not even in the religious way of doing things. In all forms of belief it is our own individual action that leads us to the desired outcome of faith. And there is no “fraternity” or “one nation under God”. The guy who invented this was the Byzantine Emperor Constantine who had remained a pagan until he accepted to be baptized on his deathbed. He simply saw a window of opportunity there and one cannot say that it didn’t work. If allowed the Eastern part of the Roman Empire to survive for another 1000 years after that.<br />
 <br />
Back to the 21st century and Sacha Baron Cohen we can clearly say that there is no such unity or brotherhood of faith. In fact in the 20th century we had this whole range of dictators who were telling their people “Look, it’s either me, or the political Islamists, love me damned! I’m so secular and progressive!”. <br />
 <br />
Having travelled to Egypt, Syria and Lebanon I can tell you right away that this “brotherhood of faith” is a lie. They are all good people, but the reason why General Abdunassır who was a great reformist in Egypt has been unsuccessful despite being a true patriot and believer in modern values was that everyone around him were self-involved thieves who had no other care but to make themselves richer. And this is the story of all the middle-east in the second half of the 20th century. In the 60’s and 70’s many young men who studied in Europe came back to Iraq, Syria, Libya etc. hoping to make something out of their country. Only to find out that “The secret hand” did not want them to make their respective countries anything other than what it already is.<br />
 <br />
So this is a picture of us at the beginning of the new Dwapara Yuga or Aquarian Age. Of course we are going to mend this in some way. But this is the reality as it is now. <br />
<br />
The main idea here: There is no unity through fate. If anyone is talking to you in these terms he/she probably needs something from you.  <br />
<br />
<img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/cool.gif" alt="Cool" title="Cool" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Cutting off the Last Straw from Religion - Fear of Hell - Two Quick Reasons to let go]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66455.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2025 22:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66455.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[When I was leaving Christianity as a young teen, I recall the last thing holding me back was the fear of hell. The point of this post is to show two quick reasons for those in this in-between state of religion and irreligion (specifically in regard to Christianity/Islam which threatens your eternal afterlife with punishment) and how you can move past this.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;" class="mycode_align">1. Fear is not a reason to believe + Belief is not something you can choose</div>
<br />
Fear being used to act a certain way, to behave in a specific manner or declare something is not a reason. It is not a logical argument or evidence. It is a coercion tactic. Think of the action-movie you've seen with the prisoner strapped to the chair being beaten to give secrets. That is what religion does with belief.<br />
<br />
If the last thing holding you onto religion is the fear of the afterlife (hell), then recall that fear is not a reason. It is a coercion tactic. If all that's left is the coercion, the fear itself, but there is no substance (no evidence to the truth or existence of God/Chrsitianity), then there is no reason to believe.<br />
<br />
Furthermore, if it is just a deep-seated fear that is left, maybe you are due for a bit more introspection. If there is no other reason, then you simply cannot choose to believe in the existence of god. There is a distinction between choosing to act a certain way versus believing something. You cannot choose what you believe in. You are convinced of it, and so you believe in it. If you somehow believe in something you are not convinced of, you are just lying to yourself, or acting.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;" class="mycode_align">2. Giving yourself to a lying religion then causes you to lose this life to it.</div>
<br />
If you're afraid of losing an eternal afterlife due to lack of belief, consider the alternative-- you are losing this life to religion if you decide to pursue it and it is a lie. Every minute you spend praying, every hour spent in church, every moment spent studying its scriptures, you are wasting your time on lies. Now, if you want to study Christianity as an intellectual exercise, by no means will that be a waste of time, but the time is wasted when you realize it is all a lie. It is like spending time with a scammer who is buttering you up to steal from you. It is like going on dates with someone who is not interested in you.<br />
<br />
For as much fear as you have to losing an afterlife, do not forget the risk you incur of losing this life you're in right now.<br />
<br />
Those are just two of the big arguments to fear of hell/pascal's wager that I see less often talked about, and thought was worth a post.<br />
<br />
Forever Sophist]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[When I was leaving Christianity as a young teen, I recall the last thing holding me back was the fear of hell. The point of this post is to show two quick reasons for those in this in-between state of religion and irreligion (specifically in regard to Christianity/Islam which threatens your eternal afterlife with punishment) and how you can move past this.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;" class="mycode_align">1. Fear is not a reason to believe + Belief is not something you can choose</div>
<br />
Fear being used to act a certain way, to behave in a specific manner or declare something is not a reason. It is not a logical argument or evidence. It is a coercion tactic. Think of the action-movie you've seen with the prisoner strapped to the chair being beaten to give secrets. That is what religion does with belief.<br />
<br />
If the last thing holding you onto religion is the fear of the afterlife (hell), then recall that fear is not a reason. It is a coercion tactic. If all that's left is the coercion, the fear itself, but there is no substance (no evidence to the truth or existence of God/Chrsitianity), then there is no reason to believe.<br />
<br />
Furthermore, if it is just a deep-seated fear that is left, maybe you are due for a bit more introspection. If there is no other reason, then you simply cannot choose to believe in the existence of god. There is a distinction between choosing to act a certain way versus believing something. You cannot choose what you believe in. You are convinced of it, and so you believe in it. If you somehow believe in something you are not convinced of, you are just lying to yourself, or acting.<br />
<br />
<div style="text-align: center;" class="mycode_align">2. Giving yourself to a lying religion then causes you to lose this life to it.</div>
<br />
If you're afraid of losing an eternal afterlife due to lack of belief, consider the alternative-- you are losing this life to religion if you decide to pursue it and it is a lie. Every minute you spend praying, every hour spent in church, every moment spent studying its scriptures, you are wasting your time on lies. Now, if you want to study Christianity as an intellectual exercise, by no means will that be a waste of time, but the time is wasted when you realize it is all a lie. It is like spending time with a scammer who is buttering you up to steal from you. It is like going on dates with someone who is not interested in you.<br />
<br />
For as much fear as you have to losing an afterlife, do not forget the risk you incur of losing this life you're in right now.<br />
<br />
Those are just two of the big arguments to fear of hell/pascal's wager that I see less often talked about, and thought was worth a post.<br />
<br />
Forever Sophist]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Does World View Directly Impact the World?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66430.html</link>
			<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2025 16:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66430.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[What is the relationship there?   is it a simple matter of world view defines operating parameters and operating within those parameters is bound to leave tangible consequences?   Is it more involved than that?   is there any correlation at all?  <br />
<br />
And if so, to what degree, where?   Like, how would a fundamentally secular society differ from ones that developed with say, Christianity or Islam or something?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[What is the relationship there?   is it a simple matter of world view defines operating parameters and operating within those parameters is bound to leave tangible consequences?   Is it more involved than that?   is there any correlation at all?  <br />
<br />
And if so, to what degree, where?   Like, how would a fundamentally secular society differ from ones that developed with say, Christianity or Islam or something?]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Why I Joined This Forum For My Work I Was Asked]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66380.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 01 Apr 2025 18:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66380.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Here is why<br />
---<br />
Deesse23<br />
 Then why do you plan on revealing your awesome work in this insignificant forum of all places in the world? Why arent you already debating the most well-educated and experienced scholars? Who don't i read in newspapers and hear on TV about your findings? <br />
---<br />
<br />
There is a significant reason why I chose this forum, of all places in the world. I am creating a video that introduces my extensive research about the false claims regarding the marriage of Aisha (RA) and the allegations that the Prophet (PBUH) was a pedophile. <br />
This video begins with a man sitting in front of his computer, looking to engage in discussions with atheists, so he joins this Atheist Forum. Instead of finding a welcoming group, he is met with substantial hostility from his first post to the last. The debate raged on for about seven hours, with 22 atheists against one. <br />
The initial accusations thrown at him included, 'Your prophet was a dog,' 'Muhammad was a pedophile,' and so forth. I was attacked from every direction by everyone. After that night, I spent 13 years researching why these claims were made against the Prophet (PBUH). <br />
I have never forgotten that night, and it drove me to return here to see how the forum would react if I approached gently, hoping at least for a fair hearing and a chance to move past those hostilities. <br />
Unfortunately, even my posting of the Table of Contents for my research was met with accusations of advertising, which is incorrect. And my third post has also been removed. I am now recording all posts and have never been more convinced that achieving peace between Islam and atheists will be challenging—not because of Islam, but because of the initial belligerence from non-believers. Another lost opportunity for humanity to find amicability and tolerance.<br />
<br />
I am now contented and have sufficient material. Even if this is also deleted. Know that I have everything print screened in my archives. It is another proof that atheists can never stand against man to man with a scholar of Islam. My last word - You will come to hear about this soon all over the world not too long from now.<br />
<br />
Al-Amiyr<br />
01 April 2025]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Here is why<br />
---<br />
Deesse23<br />
 Then why do you plan on revealing your awesome work in this insignificant forum of all places in the world? Why arent you already debating the most well-educated and experienced scholars? Who don't i read in newspapers and hear on TV about your findings? <br />
---<br />
<br />
There is a significant reason why I chose this forum, of all places in the world. I am creating a video that introduces my extensive research about the false claims regarding the marriage of Aisha (RA) and the allegations that the Prophet (PBUH) was a pedophile. <br />
This video begins with a man sitting in front of his computer, looking to engage in discussions with atheists, so he joins this Atheist Forum. Instead of finding a welcoming group, he is met with substantial hostility from his first post to the last. The debate raged on for about seven hours, with 22 atheists against one. <br />
The initial accusations thrown at him included, 'Your prophet was a dog,' 'Muhammad was a pedophile,' and so forth. I was attacked from every direction by everyone. After that night, I spent 13 years researching why these claims were made against the Prophet (PBUH). <br />
I have never forgotten that night, and it drove me to return here to see how the forum would react if I approached gently, hoping at least for a fair hearing and a chance to move past those hostilities. <br />
Unfortunately, even my posting of the Table of Contents for my research was met with accusations of advertising, which is incorrect. And my third post has also been removed. I am now recording all posts and have never been more convinced that achieving peace between Islam and atheists will be challenging—not because of Islam, but because of the initial belligerence from non-believers. Another lost opportunity for humanity to find amicability and tolerance.<br />
<br />
I am now contented and have sufficient material. Even if this is also deleted. Know that I have everything print screened in my archives. It is another proof that atheists can never stand against man to man with a scholar of Islam. My last word - You will come to hear about this soon all over the world not too long from now.<br />
<br />
Al-Amiyr<br />
01 April 2025]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[If Any, What is Your Most Negative View on Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)?]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66374.html</link>
			<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2025 21:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66374.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Hello to all,<br />
<br />
This is my first post here. As a scholar deeply engaged with Islamic studies, my expertise spans the entire breadth of the field. I'm interested in understanding the views of forum members concerning the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Specifically, I would like to know if there is any particular aspect related to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that has influenced you negatively. If so, could you please elaborate on why?<br />
<br />
Thank you,<br />
<br />
Al-Amiyr<br />
30 March 2025]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Hello to all,<br />
<br />
This is my first post here. As a scholar deeply engaged with Islamic studies, my expertise spans the entire breadth of the field. I'm interested in understanding the views of forum members concerning the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). Specifically, I would like to know if there is any particular aspect related to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) that has influenced you negatively. If so, could you please elaborate on why?<br />
<br />
Thank you,<br />
<br />
Al-Amiyr<br />
30 March 2025]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[New Way of practicing Old Beliefs]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66335.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 07 Feb 2025 12:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66335.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Here is the message of Grand Nudger in the thread called "pure Brutality" in the "Islam" part of this forum:<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>You believe in "original messages" because islam. The new age movement is a western movement full of western thoughts designed to satisfy a western aim. Separating suckers from their money. Neo paganism is full of western pagan thought - not alot of african gods in there. American buddhism is microtargeted at americans.<br />
<br />
Your idea of traditional beliefs "working" is doing alot of work covering for alot of sins. One wonders, if they "worked"..why you and every other imam or guru or shaman has been continually amending and revising them, continually saying that they're all meaningfully wrong. Mantra science is not a thing. It's the belief in magic words, in cantrips and spells. In wizards, harry. You think we need to put some limits on them and they think we need to put you under the limit bus.<br />
<br />
I do, fwiw, agree with you that all this stuff is an attempt to figure out how to live our lives. I just think that superstition and fiction are a poor basis for such practical aims...and dogmatic and fanatical new ageism is just as dogmatic, just as fanatic, and just as superstituous as any other traditional fiction. It's also very...very...western. It's the great satans most american belief set. A mashup of things from everywhere, just like it's people.</blockquote>
<br />
1) Well if we are talking about Neo-pagans some of them are into Norse Gods, some of them like Greco-Roman Gods others prefer the Egyptian of even Hindu Pantheon.<br />
 <br />
All of these new-ages approaches are very Western in nature because I don’t see them emerging in the Soviet Union or under Nazi or Fascist rule for instance. I think this has to do with the spirit of the 60’s. So yes it is very western, but it started with a feeling of dissatisfaction with the Western Cartesian and purely scientific way of doing things. I can even add to that that 20th century Western philosophical movements like existentialism etc. are great. But none of these will answer the deeper spiritual questions that many of us have.<br />
 <br />
2) All that I am saying on that is that I am my own shaman, İmam or preacher (mostly). I study new ideas, practice them, see if they work for me and move forward. This is very different from people doing things out of fear of hell and hope for bodily pleasures (in a phase of their existence in which they don’t even have a body to experience bodily pain or pleasures).<br />
 <br />
3) All beliefs can become superficial and dogmatic in time. So there are cases in which you are 100% correct. Still, the new thought movement is more dynamic and individualize din comparison to old religions. People go in, people go out. I learn, I unlearn and because it’s individualized I have no “spread the word” issue of anything like that. <br />
 <br />
   Also it’s easy to learn and apply on yourself. And it’s based on observation too, because in the end you can observe if this thing is useful to you or others. <br />
 <br />
   So again: the “Le Bled” grammar book was the main student book in schools in the 70’s. in the 80’s it was a mean of punishment and most modern schools around the world had figured out ways to make school into something that is “fun” and teachers learned to be friendly with their students instead of acting like miniature dictators. <br />
 <br />
   So everything in this world is evolving. So is religion and spirituality <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_81" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Here is the message of Grand Nudger in the thread called "pure Brutality" in the "Islam" part of this forum:<br />
<br />
<br />
<blockquote class="mycode_quote"><cite>Quote:</cite>You believe in "original messages" because islam. The new age movement is a western movement full of western thoughts designed to satisfy a western aim. Separating suckers from their money. Neo paganism is full of western pagan thought - not alot of african gods in there. American buddhism is microtargeted at americans.<br />
<br />
Your idea of traditional beliefs "working" is doing alot of work covering for alot of sins. One wonders, if they "worked"..why you and every other imam or guru or shaman has been continually amending and revising them, continually saying that they're all meaningfully wrong. Mantra science is not a thing. It's the belief in magic words, in cantrips and spells. In wizards, harry. You think we need to put some limits on them and they think we need to put you under the limit bus.<br />
<br />
I do, fwiw, agree with you that all this stuff is an attempt to figure out how to live our lives. I just think that superstition and fiction are a poor basis for such practical aims...and dogmatic and fanatical new ageism is just as dogmatic, just as fanatic, and just as superstituous as any other traditional fiction. It's also very...very...western. It's the great satans most american belief set. A mashup of things from everywhere, just like it's people.</blockquote>
<br />
1) Well if we are talking about Neo-pagans some of them are into Norse Gods, some of them like Greco-Roman Gods others prefer the Egyptian of even Hindu Pantheon.<br />
 <br />
All of these new-ages approaches are very Western in nature because I don’t see them emerging in the Soviet Union or under Nazi or Fascist rule for instance. I think this has to do with the spirit of the 60’s. So yes it is very western, but it started with a feeling of dissatisfaction with the Western Cartesian and purely scientific way of doing things. I can even add to that that 20th century Western philosophical movements like existentialism etc. are great. But none of these will answer the deeper spiritual questions that many of us have.<br />
 <br />
2) All that I am saying on that is that I am my own shaman, İmam or preacher (mostly). I study new ideas, practice them, see if they work for me and move forward. This is very different from people doing things out of fear of hell and hope for bodily pleasures (in a phase of their existence in which they don’t even have a body to experience bodily pain or pleasures).<br />
 <br />
3) All beliefs can become superficial and dogmatic in time. So there are cases in which you are 100% correct. Still, the new thought movement is more dynamic and individualize din comparison to old religions. People go in, people go out. I learn, I unlearn and because it’s individualized I have no “spread the word” issue of anything like that. <br />
 <br />
   Also it’s easy to learn and apply on yourself. And it’s based on observation too, because in the end you can observe if this thing is useful to you or others. <br />
 <br />
   So again: the “Le Bled” grammar book was the main student book in schools in the 70’s. in the 80’s it was a mean of punishment and most modern schools around the world had figured out ways to make school into something that is “fun” and teachers learned to be friendly with their students instead of acting like miniature dictators. <br />
 <br />
   So everything in this world is evolving. So is religion and spirituality <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_81" />]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Ben Shapiro vs Neil deGrasse Tyson: The WAR Over Transgender Issues]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66270.html</link>
			<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jan 2025 20:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66270.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Ben Shapiro vs Neil deGrasse Tyson: The WAR Over Transgender Issues<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMYV0LQBEBs" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMYV0LQBEBs</a><br />
By Progressive Perspective<br />
Length = 16:25<br />
<br />
<br />
Ben Shapiro asks “Is so and so scientific” or “How do you determine scientifically that a person is a women” or something like that.<br />
He wants something that is true.<br />
<br />
I have heard similar argument from those that are anti-transgender. I remember someone saying that in biology class, we learned that when the 23 rd chromosome is XX, then it is a female and if it is a XY then it is a male.<br />
That mostly applies to humans. There are cases where someone can have XY and be born as a female.<br />
This notion of the shape of a chromosome indicating the sex of the creature has a certain word that I can’t remember.<br />
<br />
Also, it is not present in other creatures.<br />
<br />
<br />
Truth isn’t something that is exclusive to science. So, nobody is forcing us to decide whether someone is a man or a woman based on science.<br />
So in the case of Ben Shapiro that says at some point “But that is not scientific!”, so what.<br />
<br />
BUT THAT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC!<br />
Humans have decided to classify people into male and female groups to do sports. That is not scientific.<br />
In some sports, you have categories by weight: lightweight, middle weight, heavyweight. That is not scientific.<br />
In some sports, you have categories based on age: Age 5 to 7 is in group A<br />
Age 8 to 10 is in group B....etc That is not scientific.<br />
<br />
This notion that males have more testosterone than females might be a fact but using that as a policy in a sport is not related to science.<br />
Also, there is variation with the amount of testosterone between athletes.<br />
The amount that a certain person has probably depends on a few factors like genetics, body size, nutrition, maybe the environment and exercise.<br />
<br />
There are all sorts of genetic and whatever factors that effect a person. Maybe people from a certain region should only compete with their own group just to be fair.<br />
<br />
<br />
Or, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, don’t classify people into groups and let them all compete together. Let the athlete decide with if he refuses to compete with a person or not.<br />
Or like in school, measure their ability and then put them into groups. For example, measure their running speed. People who can do 20 to 22 km/h go into Group H.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Ben Shapiro vs Neil deGrasse Tyson: The WAR Over Transgender Issues<br />
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMYV0LQBEBs" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMYV0LQBEBs</a><br />
By Progressive Perspective<br />
Length = 16:25<br />
<br />
<br />
Ben Shapiro asks “Is so and so scientific” or “How do you determine scientifically that a person is a women” or something like that.<br />
He wants something that is true.<br />
<br />
I have heard similar argument from those that are anti-transgender. I remember someone saying that in biology class, we learned that when the 23 rd chromosome is XX, then it is a female and if it is a XY then it is a male.<br />
That mostly applies to humans. There are cases where someone can have XY and be born as a female.<br />
This notion of the shape of a chromosome indicating the sex of the creature has a certain word that I can’t remember.<br />
<br />
Also, it is not present in other creatures.<br />
<br />
<br />
Truth isn’t something that is exclusive to science. So, nobody is forcing us to decide whether someone is a man or a woman based on science.<br />
So in the case of Ben Shapiro that says at some point “But that is not scientific!”, so what.<br />
<br />
BUT THAT IS NOT SCIENTIFIC!<br />
Humans have decided to classify people into male and female groups to do sports. That is not scientific.<br />
In some sports, you have categories by weight: lightweight, middle weight, heavyweight. That is not scientific.<br />
In some sports, you have categories based on age: Age 5 to 7 is in group A<br />
Age 8 to 10 is in group B....etc That is not scientific.<br />
<br />
This notion that males have more testosterone than females might be a fact but using that as a policy in a sport is not related to science.<br />
Also, there is variation with the amount of testosterone between athletes.<br />
The amount that a certain person has probably depends on a few factors like genetics, body size, nutrition, maybe the environment and exercise.<br />
<br />
There are all sorts of genetic and whatever factors that effect a person. Maybe people from a certain region should only compete with their own group just to be fair.<br />
<br />
<br />
Or, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, don’t classify people into groups and let them all compete together. Let the athlete decide with if he refuses to compete with a person or not.<br />
Or like in school, measure their ability and then put them into groups. For example, measure their running speed. People who can do 20 to 22 km/h go into Group H.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Christianity; The World's most vile religion]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66237.html</link>
			<pubDate>Fri, 13 Dec 2024 16:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66237.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[It's a well known fact that, throughout its blood-soaked history, Christianity has been responsible for some of the worst acts in human history.<br />
<br />
Genocides.<br />
Persecutions.<br />
Wars.<br />
Crusades.<br />
Massacres.<br />
<br />
Slavery.<br />
Pogroms.<br />
Destruction of cultural treasures.<br />
<br />
Perhaps the "good book" should be banned.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[It's a well known fact that, throughout its blood-soaked history, Christianity has been responsible for some of the worst acts in human history.<br />
<br />
Genocides.<br />
Persecutions.<br />
Wars.<br />
Crusades.<br />
Massacres.<br />
<br />
Slavery.<br />
Pogroms.<br />
Destruction of cultural treasures.<br />
<br />
Perhaps the "good book" should be banned.]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[Christianity; the World's Most Violently Persecuted Religion]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66228.html</link>
			<pubDate>Tue, 10 Dec 2024 23:29:46 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66228.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[Such is life when immorality and jealously are just so in vogue. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48146305" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48146305</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/persecution/countries/" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/persec...countries/</a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[Such is life when immorality and jealously are just so in vogue. <br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48146305" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-48146305</a><br />
<br />
<a href="https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/persecution/countries/" target="_blank" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">https://www.opendoorsus.org/en-US/persec...countries/</a>]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
		<item>
			<title><![CDATA[The Idea of Hell]]></title>
			<link>https://atheistforums.org/thread-66227.html</link>
			<pubDate>Mon, 09 Dec 2024 22:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
			<guid isPermaLink="false">https://atheistforums.org/thread-66227.html</guid>
			<description><![CDATA[I want to start this discussion with the saying of the Stoic philosopher Epicurus (341-271 BC):<br />
 <br />
“<span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are death is not come, and when death is come, we are not.”</span><br />
 <br />
Isn’t this simple statement simply much more useful than most of the theistic stuff people are being fed with?<br />
 <br />
Here is the famous nine circles of hell by Dante:<br />
<br />
<br />
 <img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_HGD5t1FbyM/maxresdefault.jpg" alt="[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
I think the book is much more amazing that these representations.<br />
 <br />
And here I even found and Islamic adaptation that is (supposedly) based on the Quran itself (or on some interpretation of the Quran):<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/riFyD9kMG94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><br />
<br />
<br />
(I think it's incredible how different religions have the ability of copying the stupidest ideas from one another) <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_81" /><br />
 <br />
These are stuff that used to scare me in the 90’s, did not really interest me in the 00’s and that I am finding rather repulsive today.<br />
 <br />
“Hel” used to be the general name for the afterlife among ancient Germanic-Scandinavian people. The name Gehennom or Dje-Han-dam in Arabic used to be a place in Israel in which human sacrifices were carried-out in very ancient times. <br />
 <br />
On a spiritual level it can mean many different things. The life we are living can be defined as “Hell” if we have made it like this and the divine is usually seen as the element that can free us from Hell (like in the paintings of Jesus slamming open the gates of Hell).<br />
<br />
<img src="https://albertis-window.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Anastasis-public-domain-1310-1321-480x359.jpg" alt="[Image: Anastasis-public-domain-1310-1321-480x359.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
(Above: Painting from the Chora Church in Istanbul. Adam and Eve are being rescued from their tombs)<br />
 <br />
On some other level, there are also believes in the east that those who were restless in their lives who die with feelings of anger, jealousy, hatred etc. in their lives have it more difficult than the rest of us in the after lives. That is also defined as some sort of “hell” but as far as I know it’s temporary because the Universe will end up rebalancing these negative karmas and painful energies as well. <br />
 <br />
So maybe we must look straight at it: I don’t think its ok in 2024 to tell scary stories to people to people in order to manipulate them or make them comply to whatever ideology or ritual etc. you have in mind for them.<br />
 <br />
This idea is a fairy tale and I also believe than scaring young individuals with stories like that is not a healthy thing to do either.   <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/cool.gif" alt="Cool" title="Cool" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[I want to start this discussion with the saying of the Stoic philosopher Epicurus (341-271 BC):<br />
 <br />
“<span style="font-style: italic;" class="mycode_i">Death, therefore, the most awful of evils, is nothing to us, seeing that, when we are death is not come, and when death is come, we are not.”</span><br />
 <br />
Isn’t this simple statement simply much more useful than most of the theistic stuff people are being fed with?<br />
 <br />
Here is the famous nine circles of hell by Dante:<br />
<br />
<br />
 <img src="https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_HGD5t1FbyM/maxresdefault.jpg" alt="[Image: maxresdefault.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
I think the book is much more amazing that these representations.<br />
 <br />
And here I even found and Islamic adaptation that is (supposedly) based on the Quran itself (or on some interpretation of the Quran):<br />
<br />
<br />
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/riFyD9kMG94" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe><br />
<br />
<br />
(I think it's incredible how different religions have the ability of copying the stupidest ideas from one another) <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/smile.gif" alt="Smile" title="Smile" class="smilie smilie_81" /><br />
 <br />
These are stuff that used to scare me in the 90’s, did not really interest me in the 00’s and that I am finding rather repulsive today.<br />
 <br />
“Hel” used to be the general name for the afterlife among ancient Germanic-Scandinavian people. The name Gehennom or Dje-Han-dam in Arabic used to be a place in Israel in which human sacrifices were carried-out in very ancient times. <br />
 <br />
On a spiritual level it can mean many different things. The life we are living can be defined as “Hell” if we have made it like this and the divine is usually seen as the element that can free us from Hell (like in the paintings of Jesus slamming open the gates of Hell).<br />
<br />
<img src="https://albertis-window.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Anastasis-public-domain-1310-1321-480x359.jpg" alt="[Image: Anastasis-public-domain-1310-1321-480x359.jpg]" class="mycode_img" /><br />
<br />
(Above: Painting from the Chora Church in Istanbul. Adam and Eve are being rescued from their tombs)<br />
 <br />
On some other level, there are also believes in the east that those who were restless in their lives who die with feelings of anger, jealousy, hatred etc. in their lives have it more difficult than the rest of us in the after lives. That is also defined as some sort of “hell” but as far as I know it’s temporary because the Universe will end up rebalancing these negative karmas and painful energies as well. <br />
 <br />
So maybe we must look straight at it: I don’t think its ok in 2024 to tell scary stories to people to people in order to manipulate them or make them comply to whatever ideology or ritual etc. you have in mind for them.<br />
 <br />
This idea is a fairy tale and I also believe than scaring young individuals with stories like that is not a healthy thing to do either.   <img src="https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/cool.gif" alt="Cool" title="Cool" class="smilie smilie_70" />]]></content:encoded>
		</item>
	</channel>
</rss>