<![CDATA[Atheist Forums - Islam]]> https://atheistforums.org/ Thu, 14 May 2026 18:04:15 +0000 MyBB <![CDATA[The Arabian Peninsula]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66604.html Thu, 29 Jan 2026 20:25:08 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66604.html  
These are seen by some people as “The good guys” of the Muslim world. They have been steady allies of the French and the British and have had mostly friendly relationships with the US and its allies in the region like Israel.
 
But these are not angels either. They too affected with this sickness of doing politics according to some interpretation of religious scriptures. They deeply dislike things like secularism, the rule of law and democracy. It’s not in the DNA of these countries. So now they are teaming up and trying to dissuade D. Trump from hitting the IRI. They are doing this because:
 


 
1) Because they don’t believe in self-determination
 
2) Because they don’t want “strong” neighbors. They believe in weak neighbors who will not challenge them in any area.]]>  
These are seen by some people as “The good guys” of the Muslim world. They have been steady allies of the French and the British and have had mostly friendly relationships with the US and its allies in the region like Israel.
 
But these are not angels either. They too affected with this sickness of doing politics according to some interpretation of religious scriptures. They deeply dislike things like secularism, the rule of law and democracy. It’s not in the DNA of these countries. So now they are teaming up and trying to dissuade D. Trump from hitting the IRI. They are doing this because:
 


 
1) Because they don’t believe in self-determination
 
2) Because they don’t want “strong” neighbors. They believe in weak neighbors who will not challenge them in any area.]]> <![CDATA[More protests Against The Theocratic Regime in Iran]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66583.html Tue, 30 Dec 2025 18:16:11 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66583.html  
Then I want to share this image (go to 03:00). There has been protest suicides in Iran in recent years. With people killing themselves to show how done they are with the current regime:
 
 


 
Then there is my comments:
 
1) There are people living among us who simply don’t believe in governments that mainly work for the benefit of the entire population, who believe in “the rule of the strongest”. These are basically political narcissists who believe than everybody other than themselves is mainly there to serve them and must be subjugated and brought to a state of de-facto and internalized slavery or serfdom.
 
2) Even in the 20th century, there are people who do not understand the principle of separation of powers. The military, the judiciary and religious authority cannot be concentrated inside a single authority.
 
Second: This world is based on mathematical, and Newtonian and Quantic principles. So if you want the economy to work, you must act in a way that is based on these principles. God / Allah / Dios will not fix the economy for you if you don’t use your intelligence to fix it yourself. In fact, it is a widely spread belief that more issues are there so that you have the opportunity to solve whatever problem it is that you are facing.
 
More openly I can say that we have an amount of intelligence that is inherent to us. So if you let the ministry of finances with very smart and educated economists instead of people from the clergy, you should get a better economy (especially with all the oil revenues that Iran has).
 
Finally, I am not an anti-sanction person. We live in a civilized world. What happens in one country does affect other countries. So you cannot (for instance) execute 1500 innocent people every year and hope that the rest of the world will just keep buying your fossil fuel resources and keep investing in your economy. It doesn’t work that way.
 
So please, use your brain when dealing with spirituality. Spirituality is supposed to make you “better” if you know what I mean. The new testament says:
Matthew 7:15-23
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”
 
And in Fatir 5 (in the Quran) it says:
 
“Do not let the deceiver deceive you with Allah / About Allah”
 
So the most important issue in this world is to maintain a critical mindset with everything and everyone.
 
There is no greater madness than the madness of “religiously inclined” people in this world. (83 Dolars / month. Are you kidding me?” Smile]]>  
Then I want to share this image (go to 03:00). There has been protest suicides in Iran in recent years. With people killing themselves to show how done they are with the current regime:
 
 


 
Then there is my comments:
 
1) There are people living among us who simply don’t believe in governments that mainly work for the benefit of the entire population, who believe in “the rule of the strongest”. These are basically political narcissists who believe than everybody other than themselves is mainly there to serve them and must be subjugated and brought to a state of de-facto and internalized slavery or serfdom.
 
2) Even in the 20th century, there are people who do not understand the principle of separation of powers. The military, the judiciary and religious authority cannot be concentrated inside a single authority.
 
Second: This world is based on mathematical, and Newtonian and Quantic principles. So if you want the economy to work, you must act in a way that is based on these principles. God / Allah / Dios will not fix the economy for you if you don’t use your intelligence to fix it yourself. In fact, it is a widely spread belief that more issues are there so that you have the opportunity to solve whatever problem it is that you are facing.
 
More openly I can say that we have an amount of intelligence that is inherent to us. So if you let the ministry of finances with very smart and educated economists instead of people from the clergy, you should get a better economy (especially with all the oil revenues that Iran has).
 
Finally, I am not an anti-sanction person. We live in a civilized world. What happens in one country does affect other countries. So you cannot (for instance) execute 1500 innocent people every year and hope that the rest of the world will just keep buying your fossil fuel resources and keep investing in your economy. It doesn’t work that way.
 
So please, use your brain when dealing with spirituality. Spirituality is supposed to make you “better” if you know what I mean. The new testament says:
Matthew 7:15-23
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”
 
And in Fatir 5 (in the Quran) it says:
 
“Do not let the deceiver deceive you with Allah / About Allah”
 
So the most important issue in this world is to maintain a critical mindset with everything and everyone.
 
There is no greater madness than the madness of “religiously inclined” people in this world. (83 Dolars / month. Are you kidding me?” Smile]]> <![CDATA[The Subjection of the Female Body to the Male Ego]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66579.html Fri, 19 Dec 2025 12:35:48 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66579.html  
On one end you have cultures in which wear very uncomfortable clothes and accessories like East-Asian women of the 19th century and the Geisha culture that still lives on today, just to please the “man” who is simply seen as superior to the woman and thus must be satisfied by the woman in every way because it is just her duty to do so.
 
One other extreme in this spectrum is the extreme sexualization of the young female teenager’s body. In which parents feel the need to use phrases like “you can’t go out unless you put some clothes one” to their daughters. That is also seen as a worrisome situation because while sexuality is a huge part of any teenagers life it certainly should not be the only or even the number one priority in the life of any young adult in this world.
 
So you have some (or most religions) intervening in this area of our lives, trying to put limits to such approaches in both younger and older individuals, Islam is currently showing us how easy it is to end up in a new type of extreme, becoming fanatical about everything and once again subjecting the female body to the wishes and whims of (mostly) some elderly male individuals:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/iran...45981.html
 
The scientific reality is actually showing us the futility of all of these approaches. Technically, these bodies are our tools. There are male and female bodies that are there so that we keep having bodies after the death of individuals (Nature love species, not individuals). Sex is a feature of these bodies but it’s not the reason for the existence nor the primary goal of the existence of these bodies. So it doesn’t matter which kind of body you have. It’s there to serve a purpose, with that body you can go to places, you can climb the Everest, find a cure to leprosy, study ancient civilization, Join NASA’s astronaut program… It’s mainly here as a vehicle. We have bodies so we can live in this world. That’s nature’s intention.
 
So I think everybody needs to rethink some of the more “traditional” approaches, try to see what purpose they served some 50, 100 or 2000 years ago and decide whether it is worth to sow social divisions and gender discrimination in a way that is based on these approaches.
 
By the way: I don’t believe that anybody who is unable to do this type of self-reflection can still claim to be part of any religious or spiritual system in our age. I think that this type of narrow mindedness does not belong to this century (not even in a religious setting of any kind).]]>  
On one end you have cultures in which wear very uncomfortable clothes and accessories like East-Asian women of the 19th century and the Geisha culture that still lives on today, just to please the “man” who is simply seen as superior to the woman and thus must be satisfied by the woman in every way because it is just her duty to do so.
 
One other extreme in this spectrum is the extreme sexualization of the young female teenager’s body. In which parents feel the need to use phrases like “you can’t go out unless you put some clothes one” to their daughters. That is also seen as a worrisome situation because while sexuality is a huge part of any teenagers life it certainly should not be the only or even the number one priority in the life of any young adult in this world.
 
So you have some (or most religions) intervening in this area of our lives, trying to put limits to such approaches in both younger and older individuals, Islam is currently showing us how easy it is to end up in a new type of extreme, becoming fanatical about everything and once again subjecting the female body to the wishes and whims of (mostly) some elderly male individuals:
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/iran...45981.html
 
The scientific reality is actually showing us the futility of all of these approaches. Technically, these bodies are our tools. There are male and female bodies that are there so that we keep having bodies after the death of individuals (Nature love species, not individuals). Sex is a feature of these bodies but it’s not the reason for the existence nor the primary goal of the existence of these bodies. So it doesn’t matter which kind of body you have. It’s there to serve a purpose, with that body you can go to places, you can climb the Everest, find a cure to leprosy, study ancient civilization, Join NASA’s astronaut program… It’s mainly here as a vehicle. We have bodies so we can live in this world. That’s nature’s intention.
 
So I think everybody needs to rethink some of the more “traditional” approaches, try to see what purpose they served some 50, 100 or 2000 years ago and decide whether it is worth to sow social divisions and gender discrimination in a way that is based on these approaches.
 
By the way: I don’t believe that anybody who is unable to do this type of self-reflection can still claim to be part of any religious or spiritual system in our age. I think that this type of narrow mindedness does not belong to this century (not even in a religious setting of any kind).]]> <![CDATA[The Issue of Islamic Conservatism]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66539.html Sun, 21 Sep 2025 13:45:24 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66539.html  
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trum...37295.html
 
On one hand I am not saddened by this decision. As the world is being polarized once again after two or three decades of a multi-polar world, I see it as a good investment against Russian expansionism and potential Israeli hubris that is (according to me) set to rise even more in the coming decades.
 
Also it means that the Collective West is still willing to cooperate with us. And this in turn gives me hope on the future of Democracy in this country.
 
Still: Dealing with Islamic Conservatism is a big issue. Before the IRI, Iran used to be a close US ally in the region. Now they are a pariah state that is seeking to obtain atomic weapons.
 
So my position is that this is still a mistake. The Collective West is failing to act as a whole against autocrats. If Turkey (or any other nation – Hungary, Israel, Belarus etc.) is moving away from basic values like the rules of law and the respect of the freedom of expression, than democratic countries should stop dealing with these countries even if it is for some necessary short term benefits.
 
Of course the US itself is becoming a problematic country in these issues (freedom of expression, right of minorities, women’s rights, LGBTQ rights etc.) but I believe that previous generations understood this “It’s a matter of principle” kind of approach better than us. And I think this is going to be a huge issue if we are to overcome 21st century style autocrats and populists (like mr. Erdogan also known as Emperor Belisarius)  Cool]]>  
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/trum...37295.html
 
On one hand I am not saddened by this decision. As the world is being polarized once again after two or three decades of a multi-polar world, I see it as a good investment against Russian expansionism and potential Israeli hubris that is (according to me) set to rise even more in the coming decades.
 
Also it means that the Collective West is still willing to cooperate with us. And this in turn gives me hope on the future of Democracy in this country.
 
Still: Dealing with Islamic Conservatism is a big issue. Before the IRI, Iran used to be a close US ally in the region. Now they are a pariah state that is seeking to obtain atomic weapons.
 
So my position is that this is still a mistake. The Collective West is failing to act as a whole against autocrats. If Turkey (or any other nation – Hungary, Israel, Belarus etc.) is moving away from basic values like the rules of law and the respect of the freedom of expression, than democratic countries should stop dealing with these countries even if it is for some necessary short term benefits.
 
Of course the US itself is becoming a problematic country in these issues (freedom of expression, right of minorities, women’s rights, LGBTQ rights etc.) but I believe that previous generations understood this “It’s a matter of principle” kind of approach better than us. And I think this is going to be a huge issue if we are to overcome 21st century style autocrats and populists (like mr. Erdogan also known as Emperor Belisarius)  Cool]]> <![CDATA[Another Supposed Drawing of the Prophet]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66481.html Tue, 01 Jul 2025 17:02:36 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66481.html
[Image: 808x502_cmsv2_2d8b0178-b3c9-5778-b561-1e...350490.jpg]
 
 
Muhammad is saying “Hello” in the Muslim way, and Moses is replying “Hello” in the Jewish way (how funny).
 
So from my point of view the drawing is actually provocative to Jewish people more than Muslims.
 
Still, the issue was recycled by political Islamist activists and the political Islamist government who was already looking for ways to divert attention in a time in which their popularity is rapidly decreasing.]]>
[Image: 808x502_cmsv2_2d8b0178-b3c9-5778-b561-1e...350490.jpg]
 
 
Muhammad is saying “Hello” in the Muslim way, and Moses is replying “Hello” in the Jewish way (how funny).
 
So from my point of view the drawing is actually provocative to Jewish people more than Muslims.
 
Still, the issue was recycled by political Islamist activists and the political Islamist government who was already looking for ways to divert attention in a time in which their popularity is rapidly decreasing.]]> <![CDATA[why did muhammad killed more than 700 jews in medina ?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66400.html Fri, 11 Apr 2025 00:42:48 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66400.html <![CDATA[Anti-Salafist Uprising in Turkey]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66372.html Fri, 28 Mar 2025 11:30:47 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66372.html



 
 
   What happened is that Mr. Ekrem Imamoglu, the main opposition leader was jailed 10 days ago on March the 18th in a totally Chavezian / Nicholas Maduro style with false accusation that were based on false statements that were given by “secret” witnesses with no evidence whatsoever. So now people are on the street and although we are approaching Ramadan fests (a Christmas like fest during which everyone is supposed to be with their families) everyone (including Pichachu) is on the street despite protest bans in big cities.
 
    The one thing I want to emphasize here is how these fascist or religious fascist movement are so similar to one another. First they cleverly misuse and take advantage of the principles of rule of law and democracy that is provided to them. Then they make use of every opportunity that is provided to them to strengthen their grip on power. Then they start working on democratic institutions and start eliminating any “power” they could challenge their ideology (which is the only possible way of seeing things in the whole G.D. Universe). Then you get to “Crystal Nacht” type of events in which people end up being in the street demanding justice and non-schizophrenic type of governance. Smile
 
    I don’t know that much about Iran. But Turkey happens to be a real laboratory on how religiously oriented types of neo-fascist movements operate and try to social-engineer the society they are in (even if this is seemingly impossible). The other great example of course is Israel with all its conservative and Judeo-fascist political movements. Sad]]>



 
 
   What happened is that Mr. Ekrem Imamoglu, the main opposition leader was jailed 10 days ago on March the 18th in a totally Chavezian / Nicholas Maduro style with false accusation that were based on false statements that were given by “secret” witnesses with no evidence whatsoever. So now people are on the street and although we are approaching Ramadan fests (a Christmas like fest during which everyone is supposed to be with their families) everyone (including Pichachu) is on the street despite protest bans in big cities.
 
    The one thing I want to emphasize here is how these fascist or religious fascist movement are so similar to one another. First they cleverly misuse and take advantage of the principles of rule of law and democracy that is provided to them. Then they make use of every opportunity that is provided to them to strengthen their grip on power. Then they start working on democratic institutions and start eliminating any “power” they could challenge their ideology (which is the only possible way of seeing things in the whole G.D. Universe). Then you get to “Crystal Nacht” type of events in which people end up being in the street demanding justice and non-schizophrenic type of governance. Smile
 
    I don’t know that much about Iran. But Turkey happens to be a real laboratory on how religiously oriented types of neo-fascist movements operate and try to social-engineer the society they are in (even if this is seemingly impossible). The other great example of course is Israel with all its conservative and Judeo-fascist political movements. Sad]]> <![CDATA[Why not get SWAT anti terrorism team, to kill Muslims if they try to kill people for]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66336.html Sat, 08 Feb 2025 18:12:50 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66336.html
If the West or any pro Democracy countries cant defend themselves... Then why even argue about free speech to begin with if you dont have strength to defend it from murderers and killers?]]>
If the West or any pro Democracy countries cant defend themselves... Then why even argue about free speech to begin with if you dont have strength to defend it from murderers and killers?]]> <![CDATA[10 Years Since the Hideous Terrorist Attacks on Charlie Hebdo]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66279.html Tue, 07 Jan 2025 20:16:08 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66279.html
Reuters


 [Image: 8e40194_5665791-01-06.jpg]
  So I felt the need to say a thing or two on this issue because the main solution to this kind of issue is to keep talking and keep debating our ideas so that radicalization does not happen and becomes a thing of the past. There are so many questions that are there for us to answer. For instance the French are going to create some sort of museum to celebrate the freedom of expression. Yet they do not know if they should or not put the Charlie Hebdo comics (bellow) that were the supposed reasons of these terrorist attacks back in 2015:


 [Image: Charlie_Hebdo_Tout_est_pardonn%C3%A9.jpg]

   I am not really an authority on this issue but I happen to have been raised within a Muslim culture and I am also someone with rather strong spiritual convictions. Spirituality actually says that terrorists are usually people who are 100% devoted to their evil deeds. Spirituality also underlines the fact that there are very powerful negative forces at play in this world. And it also underlines the fact that we are to decide if we want a world in which we want authority to be the truth or a world in which Truth is the only Authority. (Unfortunately: Humanity does not seem to have entirely solved this issue just yet Smile  ).
 
   The way I see it: Cold War Era politicians have decided to see Political Islam as a force that would help them isolate the Soviet Union and prevent it from spreading toward Oil-Rich countries. Imperialist forces may even have seen it as an element that would act against left-wing or nationalist forces that they were trying to fight in places like Algeria in the 1960’s for instance.
 
    Now we are sort of left with the task of trying to fight-off this very destructive political ideology that is (if you ask me) a parasitical type of ideology. It’s like Fascism on steroids or communism based on Holy Scriptures. It feeds on the exclusion of less favored groups of society or economic hardship based on the different levels of development between cultures and culminates all these elements into the hatred of “the other” with a vision of a better world (like a New Reich that will last 1000 years, or a World in which the well-being Proletariat will be the only authority).
 
   Of course, since nobody is stupid enough to be convinced in such nonsense they will serve the dish with ideas on the end of the world. The supposed duties of true Muslims to adhere into this madness and all sorts of superstitious thoughts that are supposed to be “the true nature of Islam”.
 
    And I am going to add one last thing: There are many modern scholars who say that the reason of such widespread errors is due to the gullibility of the so called “believers”. I believe that, no matter which one our confession is, we are all supposed to be a little smarter. And this is true for other faiths as well. As I said in the beginning of the message: Talking is good. Communicating is good. Trying to resolve difference through dialogue is good.
 
And on an individual level: I would go for self-doubt and self-criticism and always remaining open for new ideas.
 
This looks very simple: But too much pride and attachment to this or that conviction is a totally ego-generated attitude. Our True-Self knows the limit of the human part of our identity and is therefore open to discussion and debate about the convictions of our ego or worldly-self.
 
So the guy who doesn’t know that, is way below the average it takes to be even viewed as a spiritually inclined person (let alone a person who could be devoted to God or anything like that).
 
So questioning and debating these issues are good. And people should not be scared to step on some sort of cultural identities with a fear of being seen as a racist or a person who despises other cultures. There is no cultural element inside political Islam. As I said they are our new Japanese Empire of Third Reich if you want. Bu you can’t operate this tumor through surgery. The tumor has already spread everywhere. So the solution will have to come from within us: just like populist leaders like Jair Bolsonaro or Narendra Modi, we will sort of have to figure it out within ourselves.
 
Cool]]>
Reuters


 [Image: 8e40194_5665791-01-06.jpg]
  So I felt the need to say a thing or two on this issue because the main solution to this kind of issue is to keep talking and keep debating our ideas so that radicalization does not happen and becomes a thing of the past. There are so many questions that are there for us to answer. For instance the French are going to create some sort of museum to celebrate the freedom of expression. Yet they do not know if they should or not put the Charlie Hebdo comics (bellow) that were the supposed reasons of these terrorist attacks back in 2015:


 [Image: Charlie_Hebdo_Tout_est_pardonn%C3%A9.jpg]

   I am not really an authority on this issue but I happen to have been raised within a Muslim culture and I am also someone with rather strong spiritual convictions. Spirituality actually says that terrorists are usually people who are 100% devoted to their evil deeds. Spirituality also underlines the fact that there are very powerful negative forces at play in this world. And it also underlines the fact that we are to decide if we want a world in which we want authority to be the truth or a world in which Truth is the only Authority. (Unfortunately: Humanity does not seem to have entirely solved this issue just yet Smile  ).
 
   The way I see it: Cold War Era politicians have decided to see Political Islam as a force that would help them isolate the Soviet Union and prevent it from spreading toward Oil-Rich countries. Imperialist forces may even have seen it as an element that would act against left-wing or nationalist forces that they were trying to fight in places like Algeria in the 1960’s for instance.
 
    Now we are sort of left with the task of trying to fight-off this very destructive political ideology that is (if you ask me) a parasitical type of ideology. It’s like Fascism on steroids or communism based on Holy Scriptures. It feeds on the exclusion of less favored groups of society or economic hardship based on the different levels of development between cultures and culminates all these elements into the hatred of “the other” with a vision of a better world (like a New Reich that will last 1000 years, or a World in which the well-being Proletariat will be the only authority).
 
   Of course, since nobody is stupid enough to be convinced in such nonsense they will serve the dish with ideas on the end of the world. The supposed duties of true Muslims to adhere into this madness and all sorts of superstitious thoughts that are supposed to be “the true nature of Islam”.
 
    And I am going to add one last thing: There are many modern scholars who say that the reason of such widespread errors is due to the gullibility of the so called “believers”. I believe that, no matter which one our confession is, we are all supposed to be a little smarter. And this is true for other faiths as well. As I said in the beginning of the message: Talking is good. Communicating is good. Trying to resolve difference through dialogue is good.
 
And on an individual level: I would go for self-doubt and self-criticism and always remaining open for new ideas.
 
This looks very simple: But too much pride and attachment to this or that conviction is a totally ego-generated attitude. Our True-Self knows the limit of the human part of our identity and is therefore open to discussion and debate about the convictions of our ego or worldly-self.
 
So the guy who doesn’t know that, is way below the average it takes to be even viewed as a spiritually inclined person (let alone a person who could be devoted to God or anything like that).
 
So questioning and debating these issues are good. And people should not be scared to step on some sort of cultural identities with a fear of being seen as a racist or a person who despises other cultures. There is no cultural element inside political Islam. As I said they are our new Japanese Empire of Third Reich if you want. Bu you can’t operate this tumor through surgery. The tumor has already spread everywhere. So the solution will have to come from within us: just like populist leaders like Jair Bolsonaro or Narendra Modi, we will sort of have to figure it out within ourselves.
 
Cool]]> <![CDATA[What is a drawing of Muhammad?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66185.html Sat, 02 Nov 2024 12:52:07 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66185.html
We sometimes see Muslims protesting on streets and throwing bombs on people who draw Muhammad or make contests in drawing him, but how can they tell something is a drawing of Muhammad?

If I drew a stick figure or something equally simplistic would that actually be a picture of Muhammad?

How can Muslims tell? Only because I say so? Is it offensive?]]>
We sometimes see Muslims protesting on streets and throwing bombs on people who draw Muhammad or make contests in drawing him, but how can they tell something is a drawing of Muhammad?

If I drew a stick figure or something equally simplistic would that actually be a picture of Muhammad?

How can Muslims tell? Only because I say so? Is it offensive?]]> <![CDATA[Pure Brutality]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66090.html Tue, 20 Aug 2024 13:31:09 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66090.html I recently came upon this BBC interview on the life of women in the regions that are being controlled by ISIL.
In summary an ISIL fighter needs only to see a woman. Then if he wants to he can take that woman (after a sham marriage ceremony = She is being asked 3 times by the Imam, than she is the wife of the guy she doesn’t even know). Then the ISIL fighter buy her stuff and does with her things that he wants to do (buying her some sexy underwear etc.) Then the ISIL fighter gets killed and these two get to escape Syria and talk to the press in Turkey:
 




 
This video reminds me of a 2019 movie called “Miss Bala”. I am not sure but I think it has to be available on Netflix.

[Image: miss-bala-fragman.jpg]
 
The plot is very interesting. Gloria’s sister Suzu gets kidnapped by the Mexican Cartel and Gloria decides not to let it go. The DEA also spots her and decides to use her as a covert agent inside the Mexican drug cartel. So she play the role of a “friend” of the cartel member Lino Esparza. Esparza is an interesting very clever character that I would define as a sociopath. (Psychopaths are born this way – sociopaths are people who turn into what they are because of their environment in their early childhood). Gloria is such an interesting character because she knows how to set limits with this psycho Esparza and manages to get out of the situation basically unharmed. In the movie there is this other woman Isabel. This one is more like the property of the cartel. Esparza is basically doing whatever he wants with her and Isabel is basically supposed to take it all in while still having a smile on her face. In the end she even loses her will to live and ends up sacrificing herself in order to give Gloria a chance to escape.
 
I decided to share this here because I’ve recently read that people with severe personality disorders (narcissists, Borderlines, sociopaths, especially narcissists) can be very good at using religion and spirituality as a cover or as a pretext to carry-out their antagonistic behaviors on more ordinary people. As I tried to explain before, I don’t believe this has anything to do with what I would call “real” religion or spirituality.
 
Unfortunately, there are many groups that have the stamp of “Islam” on them. But on the level of practice, these are drug cartels, barbarian hordes, mafia-like organizations or political organizations whose modus-operandi is similar to that far-right parties all over the world.
 
I cannot say there is no gender roles in religious teachings. This is an aspect of our lives in this world so most spiritual teachers did say a thing or two on these issues.
 
Still it is not possible to study these issues and establish any type of connection between that and what is pure and simple brutality. I believe that something like the Taliban could not have existed in the old ages. I think at some point, there would be a truly religiously motivated war against them.
 
Today there is no Christendom and/or Caliphate of any kind. We all became nation-states. But if there was such a thing. The IRI (for instance), and all other parallels would probably be seen heretics and other nations would subdue them in one way or the other.  Smile]]> I recently came upon this BBC interview on the life of women in the regions that are being controlled by ISIL.
In summary an ISIL fighter needs only to see a woman. Then if he wants to he can take that woman (after a sham marriage ceremony = She is being asked 3 times by the Imam, than she is the wife of the guy she doesn’t even know). Then the ISIL fighter buy her stuff and does with her things that he wants to do (buying her some sexy underwear etc.) Then the ISIL fighter gets killed and these two get to escape Syria and talk to the press in Turkey:
 




 
This video reminds me of a 2019 movie called “Miss Bala”. I am not sure but I think it has to be available on Netflix.

[Image: miss-bala-fragman.jpg]
 
The plot is very interesting. Gloria’s sister Suzu gets kidnapped by the Mexican Cartel and Gloria decides not to let it go. The DEA also spots her and decides to use her as a covert agent inside the Mexican drug cartel. So she play the role of a “friend” of the cartel member Lino Esparza. Esparza is an interesting very clever character that I would define as a sociopath. (Psychopaths are born this way – sociopaths are people who turn into what they are because of their environment in their early childhood). Gloria is such an interesting character because she knows how to set limits with this psycho Esparza and manages to get out of the situation basically unharmed. In the movie there is this other woman Isabel. This one is more like the property of the cartel. Esparza is basically doing whatever he wants with her and Isabel is basically supposed to take it all in while still having a smile on her face. In the end she even loses her will to live and ends up sacrificing herself in order to give Gloria a chance to escape.
 
I decided to share this here because I’ve recently read that people with severe personality disorders (narcissists, Borderlines, sociopaths, especially narcissists) can be very good at using religion and spirituality as a cover or as a pretext to carry-out their antagonistic behaviors on more ordinary people. As I tried to explain before, I don’t believe this has anything to do with what I would call “real” religion or spirituality.
 
Unfortunately, there are many groups that have the stamp of “Islam” on them. But on the level of practice, these are drug cartels, barbarian hordes, mafia-like organizations or political organizations whose modus-operandi is similar to that far-right parties all over the world.
 
I cannot say there is no gender roles in religious teachings. This is an aspect of our lives in this world so most spiritual teachers did say a thing or two on these issues.
 
Still it is not possible to study these issues and establish any type of connection between that and what is pure and simple brutality. I believe that something like the Taliban could not have existed in the old ages. I think at some point, there would be a truly religiously motivated war against them.
 
Today there is no Christendom and/or Caliphate of any kind. We all became nation-states. But if there was such a thing. The IRI (for instance), and all other parallels would probably be seen heretics and other nations would subdue them in one way or the other.  Smile]]> <![CDATA[Hello soulcalm17]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-66021.html Thu, 11 Jul 2024 03:32:21 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-66021.html So, we were having a discussion on Youtube and since my and your posts get continually deleted, I suggested that we hold the conversation here since there are no robots.
You aren’t the first one who has mentioned this to me.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

We don’t need to copy all our replies from Youtube. That would take too much time and I think it is against the rules.
Anyone can respond here, whatever their beliefs are. It’s totally open.

So, here was my last reply on Youtube.


]]> So, we were having a discussion on Youtube and since my and your posts get continually deleted, I suggested that we hold the conversation here since there are no robots.
You aren’t the first one who has mentioned this to me.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

We don’t need to copy all our replies from Youtube. That would take too much time and I think it is against the rules.
Anyone can respond here, whatever their beliefs are. It’s totally open.

So, here was my last reply on Youtube.


]]> <![CDATA[The Yearly Haj Pilgrimage in Mekkah]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65993.html Fri, 21 Jun 2024 19:41:34 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65993.html I feel this urge inside of me to react to this dreadful event. If you are watching the news you might have heard that some 2000 people have died in the Muslim Pilgrimage season this year mostly due to the fact that Saudi authorities tolerated many unregistered pilgrims who had no AC accommodation and ended up killing themselves trying to walk a 20 km distance toward mount Ararat in temperatures above 125 degree Fahrenheit.
 
I’m not going to go into the science of this but most of these people have died like the illegal migrants trying to reach their dreams by crossing the Chihuahua Desert (who are also dying mostly of dehydration). So this event is a form of climate denialism in a way.
 
What happens is that even if you go back to relatively closer periods like the beginning of the the 00’s, such scorching temperatures did not exist. There were still deaths in every Haj season but that was mainly due to mismanagement etc. I did spend several summers in Syria in the late 90’s. We had no AC, only a limestone building and a swimming pool and it wasn’t that bad if you stayed indoor during the hottest parts of the day. The same goes for places like Baghdad, Koweit City, or even Riyadh. Riyadh is actually built on an Oasis. In the times when climate change wasn’t as obvious as today, when there was no such urbanization. People used to cool down with natural methods like wind towers for instance. It really wasn’t that bad. + In the evening, you had cold air coming from the desert (I experienced that in Aleppo in the 90’s. people were going out at night – That’s how Arabs manage those heats and I remember taking a jacket or a sweat shirt when I went to take a walk in the city).
 
So times have changed now. That’s my first point here. If I was the authority here I would spread all of those pilgrims to the cooler part of the year. Issuing Haj permits in the hottest months only to people between 25 and 50 years of age who are advanced sports practitioners. All the rest will have to come between September and May. And I’m sure many scholars would agree with me because that’s our new reality now.
 
But the reason why I opened this thread is more spiritual. See I believe in the importance of pilgrimage of all sorts. It is good to travel long distances and to finally get to those “spiritual” places where you can visit the place in which your favorite saint has lived or one of the great teachers has been buried etc. There are many such trajectories in the Western Parts of Europe. In Spain you get to hike for a week or so, staying in tents or in one of those simple yet beautiful hostels (by yourself or with a few friends). You get to enjoy nature, be alone with your own thoughts, make a revision of the life you lived so far or whatever, than you get to this place where you make a small offering, comply to a ritual, do some prayer whatever.
The idea here is that there has to be some loneliness and calm to allow some form of introspection. Not huge crowds. I believe in the energy of those places. I also believe that this energy is disrupted wherever there is a too important number of unconscious people. So the benefit will be smaller.
 
Several people that I know did this Haj thing. I’m happy for them. The Secularist Major of Istanbul (whom I support) also did that trip in the “Umrah” form. (They call it Umrah if you refuse to do it in the scorching temperatures of June). For the time being, I don’t intend to go there at all. In fact people who go there now are seeing it as a sort of obligation, a mandatory ritual that has to be accomplished by every Muslim because God wants us to do it (even at the cost of our own lives).
 
My approach is so different. In the old days you would travel by train, by boat, on the back of a camel, etc. It was really an adventure of some sort at the end of which you would get to experience this state of “union” of so many different people from so many parts of the world. And as I said, It wasn’t that bad at all. But with 2000 people simply dying because of management (with similar figures every year). I think I’ll pass Smile
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hajj-pilgrim-...p_catchall]]> I feel this urge inside of me to react to this dreadful event. If you are watching the news you might have heard that some 2000 people have died in the Muslim Pilgrimage season this year mostly due to the fact that Saudi authorities tolerated many unregistered pilgrims who had no AC accommodation and ended up killing themselves trying to walk a 20 km distance toward mount Ararat in temperatures above 125 degree Fahrenheit.
 
I’m not going to go into the science of this but most of these people have died like the illegal migrants trying to reach their dreams by crossing the Chihuahua Desert (who are also dying mostly of dehydration). So this event is a form of climate denialism in a way.
 
What happens is that even if you go back to relatively closer periods like the beginning of the the 00’s, such scorching temperatures did not exist. There were still deaths in every Haj season but that was mainly due to mismanagement etc. I did spend several summers in Syria in the late 90’s. We had no AC, only a limestone building and a swimming pool and it wasn’t that bad if you stayed indoor during the hottest parts of the day. The same goes for places like Baghdad, Koweit City, or even Riyadh. Riyadh is actually built on an Oasis. In the times when climate change wasn’t as obvious as today, when there was no such urbanization. People used to cool down with natural methods like wind towers for instance. It really wasn’t that bad. + In the evening, you had cold air coming from the desert (I experienced that in Aleppo in the 90’s. people were going out at night – That’s how Arabs manage those heats and I remember taking a jacket or a sweat shirt when I went to take a walk in the city).
 
So times have changed now. That’s my first point here. If I was the authority here I would spread all of those pilgrims to the cooler part of the year. Issuing Haj permits in the hottest months only to people between 25 and 50 years of age who are advanced sports practitioners. All the rest will have to come between September and May. And I’m sure many scholars would agree with me because that’s our new reality now.
 
But the reason why I opened this thread is more spiritual. See I believe in the importance of pilgrimage of all sorts. It is good to travel long distances and to finally get to those “spiritual” places where you can visit the place in which your favorite saint has lived or one of the great teachers has been buried etc. There are many such trajectories in the Western Parts of Europe. In Spain you get to hike for a week or so, staying in tents or in one of those simple yet beautiful hostels (by yourself or with a few friends). You get to enjoy nature, be alone with your own thoughts, make a revision of the life you lived so far or whatever, than you get to this place where you make a small offering, comply to a ritual, do some prayer whatever.
The idea here is that there has to be some loneliness and calm to allow some form of introspection. Not huge crowds. I believe in the energy of those places. I also believe that this energy is disrupted wherever there is a too important number of unconscious people. So the benefit will be smaller.
 
Several people that I know did this Haj thing. I’m happy for them. The Secularist Major of Istanbul (whom I support) also did that trip in the “Umrah” form. (They call it Umrah if you refuse to do it in the scorching temperatures of June). For the time being, I don’t intend to go there at all. In fact people who go there now are seeing it as a sort of obligation, a mandatory ritual that has to be accomplished by every Muslim because God wants us to do it (even at the cost of our own lives).
 
My approach is so different. In the old days you would travel by train, by boat, on the back of a camel, etc. It was really an adventure of some sort at the end of which you would get to experience this state of “union” of so many different people from so many parts of the world. And as I said, It wasn’t that bad at all. But with 2000 people simply dying because of management (with similar figures every year). I think I’ll pass Smile
 
https://www.yahoo.com/news/hajj-pilgrim-...p_catchall]]> <![CDATA[Can there be New Ways of Understanding and Practicing Ancient Religious Teachings?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65938.html Wed, 08 May 2024 20:27:33 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65938.html This is a continuation of the thread “Does the Quran support Theocracy?” Thread.
 
I was talking about how the 10th century Church was using images on main cathedrals to relate the most basic biblical stories to its audiences who were mostly very poor, illiterate and has very limited perceptions about the world in general and had to be taught some sort of simplified version of religious teachings because that’s the most that could be done back in those days.
 
I don’t know if I was clear enough on this issue in that thread. There are two things I wanted to state here:
 


 
So the conclusion is that modern theists can and do in many cases have what I call a better approach to spiritual themes. Yes there are many who think (for instance) that half an inch of dark colored cloth is the main difference between endless riches and luxury in the after-life or centuries of torture in the hands of the most vicious creatures one can ever imagine. But yes, there are those with a more intelligent approach: I personally see myself as a rational explorer of these “possibilities” I believe to be real. My opinion is that the second approach is a more logical one in our times. Simply because of the fact that we are far more empowered than the people of 10th century and it is expected of people of our age to show signs of better reasoning, usage of better methods in our quests for answers and greater open-mindedness in our overall approaches and spiritual practice in general.
 
/And I am not afraid to say this openly because at least in my culture, there are serious scholars who are pointing to the fact that the second approach is more suitable in the reality of our times. ]]> This is a continuation of the thread “Does the Quran support Theocracy?” Thread.
 
I was talking about how the 10th century Church was using images on main cathedrals to relate the most basic biblical stories to its audiences who were mostly very poor, illiterate and has very limited perceptions about the world in general and had to be taught some sort of simplified version of religious teachings because that’s the most that could be done back in those days.
 
I don’t know if I was clear enough on this issue in that thread. There are two things I wanted to state here:
 


 
So the conclusion is that modern theists can and do in many cases have what I call a better approach to spiritual themes. Yes there are many who think (for instance) that half an inch of dark colored cloth is the main difference between endless riches and luxury in the after-life or centuries of torture in the hands of the most vicious creatures one can ever imagine. But yes, there are those with a more intelligent approach: I personally see myself as a rational explorer of these “possibilities” I believe to be real. My opinion is that the second approach is a more logical one in our times. Simply because of the fact that we are far more empowered than the people of 10th century and it is expected of people of our age to show signs of better reasoning, usage of better methods in our quests for answers and greater open-mindedness in our overall approaches and spiritual practice in general.
 
/And I am not afraid to say this openly because at least in my culture, there are serious scholars who are pointing to the fact that the second approach is more suitable in the reality of our times. ]]> <![CDATA[Islam is Shirk شرک]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65915.html Mon, 22 Apr 2024 08:57:16 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65915.html Because, Mohammad by Force, has provided his idea as rule and law of God.
For example imagine, you have a company, and on a land i by force claim are your represntion, therefor i have been bacome your copartner by lie and by force.
شرک=partner=copartner=partake]]> Because, Mohammad by Force, has provided his idea as rule and law of God.
For example imagine, you have a company, and on a land i by force claim are your represntion, therefor i have been bacome your copartner by lie and by force.
شرک=partner=copartner=partake]]> <![CDATA[Islamic serial killer, murderer]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65914.html Mon, 22 Apr 2024 07:49:26 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65914.html
They show, own, as your friend, but they finaly harm you or kill you and use your doc , paper, identify documents, money, simcard, devices, home, car, for terroristic purpose.

They try to find similar faces person, sometimes  for being collaborators, or, sometimes for being victims.

For example terrorists detect your face is like one of them, then they slave or kill you and rob your documents and your assets as booties. And base of your identity they do they works.]]>
They show, own, as your friend, but they finaly harm you or kill you and use your doc , paper, identify documents, money, simcard, devices, home, car, for terroristic purpose.

They try to find similar faces person, sometimes  for being collaborators, or, sometimes for being victims.

For example terrorists detect your face is like one of them, then they slave or kill you and rob your documents and your assets as booties. And base of your identity they do they works.]]> <![CDATA[Malaysian convenience store owner charged over 'Allah socks']]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65875.html Tue, 26 Mar 2024 08:53:19 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65875.html Malaysian convenience store owner charged over 'Allah socks'

The prominent founder of a Malaysian convenience store chain has been charged over the sale of socks with the word Allah written on them.
Chai Kee Kan and his wife, Loh Siew Mui, who is a company director, were accused of "wounding the religious feelings of others".
They pleaded not guilty. If convicted, they could be jailed for up to a year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68662468


So.... some people have had their religious feelings wounded, what a shame, maybe they should just grow up.
My feelings have been hurt in the past, but I got over it!]]> Malaysian convenience store owner charged over 'Allah socks'

The prominent founder of a Malaysian convenience store chain has been charged over the sale of socks with the word Allah written on them.
Chai Kee Kan and his wife, Loh Siew Mui, who is a company director, were accused of "wounding the religious feelings of others".
They pleaded not guilty. If convicted, they could be jailed for up to a year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-68662468


So.... some people have had their religious feelings wounded, what a shame, maybe they should just grow up.
My feelings have been hurt in the past, but I got over it!]]> <![CDATA[Hello All]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65857.html Sat, 16 Mar 2024 13:08:33 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65857.html
I'm C.J and this is my first post. I'm basically asking for your help to put my mind at ease concerning eternal punishment.

My story is a long and complex one which involves my eventual deconversion from Christianity (I'm Agnostic-Atheist).

My troubles are to do with my phobia of hellfire, and while I am not affiliated to any religious group, I still worry about that from time to time. It used to be the Christian hell, but recently I have begun worrying about the Islam hell. It terrifies me just as much :/

My anxieties stem from the idea that it "could exist." Again, this is a very long and complex story cut short. Over the years I have posted numerous times on the old Rational Skepticism forums (I thought it had closed down but it seems open again), and the Ex Christian (.net) website, And for years I have been feeling fine, but this last week, old horrors have resurfaced (in the form of the Islam hell).

I have been diagnosed with ADHD, OCD, and Social Anxiety, and am about to go through a series of tests for Autism (high functioning). I am currently in therapy (due to a less than secure childhood) and I'll readily admit my emotions can sometimes run roughshod over me. Sometimes it feels as if I need someone else to think for me because my anxiety makes logical thinking very difficult.

This is my third day in researching things like errors, contradictions, false prophecies, etc, in the Quran. I do this build up a knowledge base, enough so I can reasonably assume Islam is false. As an example, you can't frighten me with no presents on Christimas day because I don't believe in Santa Claus. I did the exact same thing with Christianity and even though it took just over 10 years to do so, it worked.

A lot of people over the years have been so very helpful and friendly to me and they have literally kept me sane during the darkest of times. I really don't want to go through this again, and so I've decided to build that knowledge base because knowledge is the best form of defence against irrational thoughts and ignorance.

I was wondering if anybody here might be able to point me to good sources of information that critiques the Quran? I might have already visited a few of the sites suggested as this is my third day of research, but anything would be most appreciated.

Thank you all very much for your time Smile]]>
I'm C.J and this is my first post. I'm basically asking for your help to put my mind at ease concerning eternal punishment.

My story is a long and complex one which involves my eventual deconversion from Christianity (I'm Agnostic-Atheist).

My troubles are to do with my phobia of hellfire, and while I am not affiliated to any religious group, I still worry about that from time to time. It used to be the Christian hell, but recently I have begun worrying about the Islam hell. It terrifies me just as much :/

My anxieties stem from the idea that it "could exist." Again, this is a very long and complex story cut short. Over the years I have posted numerous times on the old Rational Skepticism forums (I thought it had closed down but it seems open again), and the Ex Christian (.net) website, And for years I have been feeling fine, but this last week, old horrors have resurfaced (in the form of the Islam hell).

I have been diagnosed with ADHD, OCD, and Social Anxiety, and am about to go through a series of tests for Autism (high functioning). I am currently in therapy (due to a less than secure childhood) and I'll readily admit my emotions can sometimes run roughshod over me. Sometimes it feels as if I need someone else to think for me because my anxiety makes logical thinking very difficult.

This is my third day in researching things like errors, contradictions, false prophecies, etc, in the Quran. I do this build up a knowledge base, enough so I can reasonably assume Islam is false. As an example, you can't frighten me with no presents on Christimas day because I don't believe in Santa Claus. I did the exact same thing with Christianity and even though it took just over 10 years to do so, it worked.

A lot of people over the years have been so very helpful and friendly to me and they have literally kept me sane during the darkest of times. I really don't want to go through this again, and so I've decided to build that knowledge base because knowledge is the best form of defence against irrational thoughts and ignorance.

I was wondering if anybody here might be able to point me to good sources of information that critiques the Quran? I might have already visited a few of the sites suggested as this is my third day of research, but anything would be most appreciated.

Thank you all very much for your time Smile]]> <![CDATA[Is there a Moderate Form of Political Islam?]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65836.html Sat, 02 Mar 2024 14:23:48 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65836.html    There is a very limited number of countries who are able to produce their own fighter jets. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Belgium are also using US fighter jets or Eurofighters etc. China has its J-20’s. India is working on its TEDBF fighter jets. Our fighter jet (The Kaan Fighter jet) is being compared to the Korean KAI KF-21 fighter Jet.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/turkey-very-f...00460.html
 
Its design is like the F-22 Raptor. Many parts including the engine is made in America. But it still seems like a versatile plane that is designed to meet our need until the 2070’s.
 
It’s still underdevelopment. These are prototypes. A conflictual situation with our western allies would mean that this plain would end up like Putin’s wonder weapons like the Armata of the Su-55 etc.
 
+ Not being kicked out of the F-35 program would have meant a fleet of F-35 (for the same price as this aircraft) and a fleet of Kaan aircraft which would have meant a better prospect in future developments in the features of this aircraft.
 
The reason why I am willing to relativize this would be success story is this:
 
We are working since 1925 (the foundation of the republic) to have a place in aviation industries. In the 80’s we even sold a whole fleet of locally assembled F-16’s to Egypt. We are also producing our own air to air, air to surface missiles etc.
 
Yet this Project is like the first Turk in space (that also happened in February). It’s a show of force, an attempt to influence voters with some military successes.
 
So my argument is:
 
1) Political islamists killed our officers during our war of independence. And they definitely do not like the army in general. Since 2015, we don’t have military high schools anymore. They closed them and they decimated army officers to point which we don’t have a sufficient military expertise now if a major war like Ukraine was to start in this region. They simply hate the secular structure of the armed forces.
 
2) They are actually selling our tank factories to gulf countries. They are like people with NPD (Narcissists): They love to be seen and admired when they seem like doing stuff. But whatever they seemingly did, it was actually done by someone else and/or in is there to hide some major failure. In this case, the fact that we were producing F-35’s with other NATO countries and we ended up not having F-35’s just for some Soviet S-400 batteries that are just sitting in some military hangar somewhere.
 
- So this should answer the title of this thread. There is no “moderate” political Islam more than “moderate” dictatorship or “moderate Fascism”. These are all systems that are based on lies and repression that are there to serve the ego of a limited number of people to the detriment of the remaining 99% of the population.
 
Explainer: The Populist Justice and Development Party (who is in power in Turkey since 2002) has always claimed to be a “moderate conservative party”. So what I mean is that existing facts do not really support these claims Smile]]>    There is a very limited number of countries who are able to produce their own fighter jets. Spain, Portugal, Italy and Belgium are also using US fighter jets or Eurofighters etc. China has its J-20’s. India is working on its TEDBF fighter jets. Our fighter jet (The Kaan Fighter jet) is being compared to the Korean KAI KF-21 fighter Jet.
 
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/turkey-very-f...00460.html
 
Its design is like the F-22 Raptor. Many parts including the engine is made in America. But it still seems like a versatile plane that is designed to meet our need until the 2070’s.
 
It’s still underdevelopment. These are prototypes. A conflictual situation with our western allies would mean that this plain would end up like Putin’s wonder weapons like the Armata of the Su-55 etc.
 
+ Not being kicked out of the F-35 program would have meant a fleet of F-35 (for the same price as this aircraft) and a fleet of Kaan aircraft which would have meant a better prospect in future developments in the features of this aircraft.
 
The reason why I am willing to relativize this would be success story is this:
 
We are working since 1925 (the foundation of the republic) to have a place in aviation industries. In the 80’s we even sold a whole fleet of locally assembled F-16’s to Egypt. We are also producing our own air to air, air to surface missiles etc.
 
Yet this Project is like the first Turk in space (that also happened in February). It’s a show of force, an attempt to influence voters with some military successes.
 
So my argument is:
 
1) Political islamists killed our officers during our war of independence. And they definitely do not like the army in general. Since 2015, we don’t have military high schools anymore. They closed them and they decimated army officers to point which we don’t have a sufficient military expertise now if a major war like Ukraine was to start in this region. They simply hate the secular structure of the armed forces.
 
2) They are actually selling our tank factories to gulf countries. They are like people with NPD (Narcissists): They love to be seen and admired when they seem like doing stuff. But whatever they seemingly did, it was actually done by someone else and/or in is there to hide some major failure. In this case, the fact that we were producing F-35’s with other NATO countries and we ended up not having F-35’s just for some Soviet S-400 batteries that are just sitting in some military hangar somewhere.
 
- So this should answer the title of this thread. There is no “moderate” political Islam more than “moderate” dictatorship or “moderate Fascism”. These are all systems that are based on lies and repression that are there to serve the ego of a limited number of people to the detriment of the remaining 99% of the population.
 
Explainer: The Populist Justice and Development Party (who is in power in Turkey since 2002) has always claimed to be a “moderate conservative party”. So what I mean is that existing facts do not really support these claims Smile]]> <![CDATA[Gender Issues and Religion (especially Abrahamic Religions)]]> https://atheistforums.org/thread-65734.html Tue, 02 Jan 2024 18:57:19 +0000 https://atheistforums.org/thread-65734.html    Here is a very interesting (20 minute) on child brides in Malawi:

https://youtu.be/VaaSQteodLs?t=3
 


 
   So that’s my position on misogyny in my own and in any other religion. The “Negative” components are usually superficial interpretation and/or deliberate misinterpretation that belong to human “scholars” not to the prophets or the religious teachings themselves.  Smile]]>    Here is a very interesting (20 minute) on child brides in Malawi:

https://youtu.be/VaaSQteodLs?t=3
 


 
   So that’s my position on misogyny in my own and in any other religion. The “Negative” components are usually superficial interpretation and/or deliberate misinterpretation that belong to human “scholars” not to the prophets or the religious teachings themselves.  Smile]]>