Nothingness

[The Reality Salesman01]

...she's got a point

[Sal]

It is absolutely absurd to claim that the universe came from nothing. Why?

To my knowledge, there are no models that define the Universe arising ex nihilio, most of the models treat the Big Bang as a threshold event that we, today at least, are unable to probe because we lack a theory to describe it.

My personal opinion is that the Universe, whatever its structure, is possible to be understood. I think we should be able to project out from the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation to the structure of the Universe before the Big Bang. But it might not be sufficient, again, it's just a personal opinion.

Define nothing? 0 and infinity are equally impossible to correlate with reality. They are words used to illustrate concepts. Anyone claiming to have knowledge of true nothingness or infinity, is simply mistaken. It's much more accurate to say: I don't know.

I am unable to imagine zero or infinity, if that's what you mean, but we can describe it with thought experiments and are able to describe those two sizes with logic and math. I think that alone shows the power of language.

But again, saying "square circle" or the like, is quite different from trying to reconcile those two concepts into one visually.

[Neo-Scholastic]

I like the paradox were you meet yourself in the past, then both of you get into the time machine. You repeat this process until you have an entire army of yourself. Of course that would require a very big time machine or TARDIS-like capacity.

[The Reality Salesman01]

You can believe whatever you want dude, and you can tell yourself that an infinity is easier for you to understand than a circle-square is and I can believe that you think that because you want an infinity to be true. The fact is, none of our opinions mean shit here because none of it correlates with reality or our observable universe, so until we have some rational foundation for such speculation, its just irrational reasoning that supports its probability.

---

I like the paradox were you meet yourself in the past, then both of you get into the time machine. You repeat this process until you have an entire army of yourself. Of course that would require a very big time machine or TARDIS-like capacity.

Have you seen Hawkings theory on why that is a false paradox?

---

...and give me an example of an Infiniti thought experiment that justifies how we got to this very moment, and spare me the trouble of telling you later...no magical Gods can be invoked to fill any gaps of ignorance.

[Violet]

I like the paradox were you meet yourself in the past, then both of you get into the time machine. You repeat this process until you have an entire army of yourself. Of course that would require a very big time machine or TARDIS-like capacity.

Not seeing how this is paradoxical.

But that's a fantastic idea Not that it's my first aim once time-travel is achieved and I have the ability to do so. First order of business: remove the ability to do so from anyone else.

'It's nothing personal, Jack... it's just good business.'

---

Have you seen Hawkings theory on why that is a false paradox?

Some guy had to write a theory on why that isn't a paradox? What a loony.

...and give me an example of an Infiniti thought experiment that justifies how we got to this very moment, and spare me the trouble of telling you later...no magical Gods can be invoked to fill any gaps of ignorance.

If they couldn't be involked, then why can they be involked?

Invoking phase engines!

[The Reality Salesman01]

It is absolutely absurd to claim that the universe came from nothing. Why?

Yes, 'Why?' is the question I would have asked.

Define nothing? 0 and infinity are equally impossible to correlate with reality. They are words used to illustrate concepts. Anyone claiming to have knowledge of true nothingness or infinity, is simply mistaken. It's much more accurate to say: I don't know.

Concepts aren't a part of reality?

Its a creative liberty to take words and assign meaning to them based on possible applicability within a subject. Atheist- Not a theist. That's all.

And yet, all words are is assigned meaning... what does the basis matter?

It doesn't...if you are not aware of the need for any requirement to have criteria that gives you the ability to distinguish that which exists from that which doesn't. You know...logical absolutes...and the way you apply them..logic? If you chuck those out the window, you'd ask the sorts of questions I see you asking and report the status of your unicorn-driven-rainbow-powered-bus and tell us of your travels around the many universes/heavens you probably also think are real.

[Violet]

It doesn't...if you are not aware of the need for any requirement to have criteria that gives you the ability to distinguish that which exists from that which doesn't.

I can help you quickly and easily: it all exists.

In what form its existence takes, is quite another question

You know...logical absolutes...and the way you apply them..logic? If you chuck those out the window, you'd ask the sorts of questions I see you asking and report the status of your unicorn-driven-rainbow-powered-bus and tell us of your travels around the many universes/heavens you probably also think are real.

Logical absolutes have nothing to do with that which is material and immaterial. Dreams and all other matters of the brain are materially existent, last I knew.

The questions I ask are rather specifically important to the formulation of logical absolutes... if you want to bicker around about something that doesn't logically follow while claiming it does logically follow, be my guest

I don't have a unicorn-driven-rainbow-powered-bus, but I do have a skittlejuice IV and enough rape-nightmares to last myself fifteen lifetimes and more. :S I wish I had a U-D-R-P-B, though... that sounds useful.

[The Reality Salesman01]

Already know what crazy people say with no evidence!

[Violet]

<Didn't read, lol>

Already know what crazy people say with no evidence!

Oh of course you do~... you're just such a smart little boy, oh yes you are~! What adorable little chubby cheeks~!!

* Violet pinches Texas Sailor's face cheeks and rattles his brains.

...

If you're going to be childish, you will be treated as a child. Grow up, and you can sit at the adult's table.

[Sal]

You can believe whatever you want dude, and you can tell yourself that an infinity is easier for you to understand than a circle-square is and I can believe that you think that because you want an infinity to be true. The fact is, none of our opinions mean shit here because none of it correlates with reality or our observable universe, so until we have some rational foundation for such speculation, its just irrational reasoning that supports its probability.

I take it, that was directed at me?

My views are most aligned with naturalism than idealism, although the difference between the two is subtle. Although I use a lot of precepts from idealism, such as the power of language. That does not mean that I think an internally contradictory concept such as a 'married bachelor' or a 'square circle' exists. There I default to naturalism: What can be observed and understood as a part of Nature.

I do not think "infinity to be true" nor that "infinity is easier for you to understand than a circle-square" are true. I merely expressed that they are possible to be written in text using language.

I don't see what part of my posts implied that.