Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: June 5, 2024, 5:38 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
God is timeless
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 11:57 am)daandaan Wrote:
(December 8, 2013 at 11:54 am)ablenova Wrote: Obvious troll is obvious. Why are you guys arguing with a strawman?

indeed , the religious are trolls and their authority for trolling is their strawman ..

StrongWaters is probably an atheist and he's geting a good heartly laugh out of you guys. Probably someone's sockpuppet...

PS: None of this has anything to do with "God's timelessness."
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ablenova Wrote:
(December 8, 2013 at 11:57 am)daandaan Wrote: indeed , the religious are trolls and their authority for trolling is their strawman ..

StrongWaters is probably an atheist and he's geting a good heartly laugh out of you guys. Probably someone's sockpuppet...

PS: None of this has anything to do with "God's timelessness."

it started out with the alledged timlessness of god...
but
i ve seen the argument of strongwaters before ..on YT
and dealth with it before...i still didnt use my trumph card on that ...
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 11:57 am)whateverist Wrote: Brilliant. I think I agree. So please say more about the creative aspect of your god - unless you don't believe it created anything. In fact, please say as simply as you can what you think god is in terms of what effects it contributes to our experience. (Thank you.)

Of course, in ordinary usage one can "create" a painting .. using things that already exist of course .. but shaped by one's own creativity and intentions.

I don't quite know what you're looking for. God created us and the entire world we experience. now you ask "what is God in terms of what effects it contributes to our experience?" he plays more of a behind the scenes role in our daily lives as well as actively sustaining the existence of the universe. he would play a more active role in our lives if we want him to.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
Reply
RE: God is timeless
Good answer. So I'm to remain not one whit closer to knowing what this god is you all speak of I guess. Apparently it's either everything - and I can certainly agree that everything (that I've experienced) exists - or nothing at all. I remain doubtful but not cocky about your god.

I'm sure we both walk away understanding the other in terms of our worldview. For you, I'm just another willful ingrate who won't humble himself enough to let god in. For me, I have no doubt that you experience oneness with god but I assume that is because god is a sub-routine your consciousness is running. Even if I'm right, I wouldn't begrudge you your experience with your consciousness the way you have it. I don't think there is any error involved. It is just one of many possible configurations. If you like it, enjoy yourself. But try not to worry too much about the salvation of the skeptical. We have our own enjoyments as well. To each his own.
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 10:28 pm)whateverist Wrote: Good answer. So I'm to remain not one whit closer to knowing what this god is you all speak of I guess. Apparently it's either everything - and I can certainly agree that everything (that I've experienced) exists - or nothing at all.
An intellectual understanding of God, derived rational contemplation, only takes you so far. I say a third of the way. The second third is personal experience, by prayer and meditation. The final third come from revelation. How much emphasis one gives to each has a lot to do with how they relate or not relate to God.
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 12:01 pm)ablenova Wrote:
(December 8, 2013 at 11:57 am)daandaan Wrote: indeed , the religious are trolls and their authority for trolling is their strawman ..

StrongWaters is probably an atheist and he's geting a good heartly laugh out of you guys. Probably someone's sockpuppet...

PS: None of this has anything to do with "God's timelessness."

If you are to understand Time by the Hebrew perspective, you need two things. First, you need the language itself. Second, you need tradition from the culture. One is not far from the other since the whole of Hebrew linguistics is the roots of the tree of knowledge. I'll do my best to fill you in on the basic understanding you need. See my last post to see this from a western perspective.

By the western perspective, time related verbs all relate to past, present and future tenses. Our words reflect this mindset. To the Hebrew, verbs are actions only. Actions are either completed, being accomplished or future accomplishment. You might see this as the same thing, but this is not the eternal view of the Hebrew words. Eternity is already a reality, while the emanation of creation (En Sof) is better compared to a movie or DVD playing from beginning to end with the characters as performers in the production. The Matrix metaphor is a good version of this.

When you transliterate Hebrew letters into measurements, time is the Aleph (Alpha), or the egg, and Tav is Time. Tav is the omega, or last letter. Compare this to Christ saying this in Revelation 1.

8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”


Compare this to Isaiah 40: “I make known the end from the beginning, from ancient times, what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and I will do all that I please.’”

In relation to the father/egg, we see DNA inside the outer wall of the enclosure, which is what an emendation is. A true view of eternity by God's perspective is to see how the emanation is expressed by the Hebrew mindset.

From here, I'll refer to this key:

[Image: LETTERS.jpg]

Lexicon (Benner) Root 1007 is TIME (Zan / Aleph) - "The letter Zan represents an agricultural implement of cutting used in the harvest. The harvest is a very prominent "time" to the early Hebrews. Aleph is the strong ox. This word can be a point in time or a specific time.

Don't miss the pictograph meaning. You should get this if you know how time is cut. What you may not get is the harvest in relation. What is harvested may surprise you. The Zan is like the grim reaper's blade. It is used as the Strength (Aleph) to Cut / Divide (Zan). A grain is an Ear, or the part of the seed that opens to allow expression of information. The harvest is a process to plant a seed, watch it grow, then cut it at the stalk. It is then beaten in the threshing floor and tossed to free the wheat form the chaff (body). What is being harvested? Information from the grain. Word.

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it

What is cut in this verse above? Light from darkness.

Looking at the past, we get the word Ancient, or Before. It is the following pictographs. Mem, Dal, Quph. The idea is eternity, a door and the water. Mem is ultimately Hydrogen, or the waters of the deep. Cutting the waters is the nuclear force and energy associated with the chain reactions of the strong nuclear force over the weak. In other words, the strength to cut, divide and make something new. Elements originate from Hydrogen, which consist of one proton (+) and one electron (-) in balance. In the early universe, this is a high state of order with low entropy. Time happens when the unity is divide into multiplicity.

All other elements that follow have the Neutron as the strong house (Aleph Bet) of the force exerted on charged particles. The Strong House, or Strong Force is what contains the strong nuclear force and heels the electron by invariant symmetry laws.

There are many more words that can be used, but one of the main points to know is that what is past if before you. Before means what comes before for us. For the Hebrew mindset, it is what you are facing. You face the past because you see it. The future is unknown. To God, the future is an eternal reality. It is already divided and cut by His strength. In other words, Aleph Tav knows from beginning to end. He makes the end known from the beginning. In other words, it's a circle.

Now, move on from this to the idea of the Ruach Elohim, or Spirit of God. Once you know this, you cannot unknow.

Here is a word study I did on the Spirit of God. It relates to the cycles of time and how the Father (Aleph Bet) Creates the Son (House of Seed) as the cosmic egg of the new beginnings. Cycles must repeat to be eternal.

Before we begin this word study, consider this: the Father (Alephbet - Letters) points us to the Word, then shines a light. Darkness is divided. The Word then points us back to the Father (letters) of creation. What is the light revealing? The meaning of the letters and words.

In Galatians 1-3, Paul makes it clear that the promise of the Gospel is gaining the Spirit. Our goal is to return to the origin of Life, which is the Spirit of God (Ruach Elohim). In Genesis 1, the first creation of paradise is by Elohim. In Genesis 2, we have the Lord creating the material world and giving mankind coats of animal skin (Beast / Genesis 3). What is our goal here in the material world? Overcoming the beast (animal nature). When we do, we are born not of water, but of Spirit. First, we must be born of both water and Spirit (John 3). Gaining union with the Spirit here in the refinery (Deuteronomy 4) gives birth to our new nature above (John 3).

Once you know from this word study, you cannot unknow. Do you want me to post the word study on how the Spirit cycles in a repeated path? It's really the best part of this story.
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 10:34 pm)ChadWooters Wrote:
(December 8, 2013 at 10:28 pm)whateverist Wrote: Good answer. So I'm to remain not one whit closer to knowing what this god is you all speak of I guess. Apparently it's either everything - and I can certainly agree that everything (that I've experienced) exists - or nothing at all.
An intellectual understanding of God, derived rational contemplation, only takes you so far. I say a third of the way. The second third is personal experience, by prayer and meditation. The final third come from revelation. How much emphasis one gives to each has a lot to do with how they relate or not relate to God.

Well there you have it then. I shan't be expecting God to invite me to tea. I'm only willing to go the third of the way. I'm already open to the unknown within but I don't call it God nor do I think of it as a person like you or I. I have done so when I was much, much younger and it was a pleasure. But now I am grown and must put away the things of childhood. I seek reconciliation now with that great inner unknown, not an afterlife pal.

I see no reason to favor the bible or any other written account of this. I reject all claims to know. I don't think there is a 10 step program for integration. If a person has ever gotten this right, then I can hope to do the same. But I'm not interested in half-way measures. Either I will do it or I will fail but I will look to that inner unknown to tell me where I go wrong or right. No intermediary is necessary.
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 10:28 pm)whateverist Wrote: Good answer. So I'm to remain not one whit closer to knowing what this god is you all speak of I guess. Apparently it's either everything - and I can certainly agree that everything (that I've experienced) exists - or nothing at all. I remain doubtful but not cocky about your god.
well I don't think God would be the equivalent to everything, this would be sort of a pantheist view. I would think Panentheism would be a little closer to what i'm talking about, that God extends beyond nature and thus is greater than it. I would not say the universe and the divine are ontologically equivalent.

Quote:I'm sure we both walk away understanding the other in terms of our worldview. For you, I'm just another willful ingrate who won't humble himself enough to let god in. For me, I have no doubt that you experience oneness with god but I assume that is because god is a sub-routine your consciousness is running. Even if I'm right, I wouldn't begrudge you your experience with your consciousness the way you have it. I don't think there is any error involved. It is just one of many possible configurations. If you like it, enjoy yourself. But try not to worry too much about the salvation of the skeptical. We have our own enjoyments as well. To each his own.
I wouldn't abridge your experience with whatever it is you choose to believe of reality, whether that be materialism or some metaphysical belief. I only argue truth, not subjective superiority of beliefs.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 10:49 pm)Rational AKD Wrote: I wouldn't abridge your experience with whatever it is you choose to believe of reality, whether that be materialism or some metaphysical belief. I only argue truth, not subjective superiority of beliefs.

I'm not saying you'd argue subjective superiority. I'm just pointing out that you have no other option than to understand me by way of your understanding of everything. Same goes for me. I also am not claiming superiority, just personal preference. And I really don't begrudge you yours.
Reply
RE: God is timeless
(December 8, 2013 at 11:00 pm)whateverist Wrote: I'm not saying you'd argue subjective superiority. I'm just pointing out that you have no other option than to understand me by way of your understanding of everything. Same goes for me. I also am not claiming superiority, just personal preference. And I really don't begrudge you yours.

when I said this, I was saying this to show I agree with what you said before, not to raise contention. as you said:
(December 8, 2013 at 10:28 pm)whateverist Wrote: Even if I'm right, I wouldn't begrudge you your experience with your consciousness the way you have it.
and I agree with this entirely.
I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with senses, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use and by some other means to give us knowledge which we can attain by them.
-Galileo
Reply



Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  God is love. God is just. God is merciful. Chad32 62 20310 October 21, 2014 at 9:55 am
Last Post: Cheerful Charlie



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)