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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 4:17 pm
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2014 at 4:18 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I finding out that Genesis isn't literally true is all it takes to shake a persons faith then it's a wonder a stiff breeze hadn't turned them into gnostic atheists by now. No one has an internal crisis over whether or not a fox and a hound dog were ever bffs.....
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 3:34 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: Maybe it is the only member of its "kind", whatever that is.
Then why don't you have a name for this 'kind'? We have a name for the species, genus, class, family etc. It is the last of its kind, but it wasn't always. It's unique today. It is furry, has mammary glands and a beavers tail like a mammal. Yet it lays eggs, has a bill and webbed feet like a duck.
I'll ask again: What 'kind' is it?
You don't have a name for the 'kind' do you? Does this not demonstrate that the classification system used by science is superior to your religions system of kinds? I could name a hundred other species for which you have no 'kind' name for.
'The more I learn about people the more I like my dog'- Mark Twain
'You can have all the faith you want in spirits, and the afterlife, and heaven and hell, but when it comes to this world, don't be an idiot. Cause you can tell me you put your faith in God to put you through the day, but when it comes time to cross the road, I know you look both ways.' - Dr House
“Young earth creationism is essentially the position that all of modern science, 90% of living scientists and 98% of living biologists, all major university biology departments, every major science journal, the American Academy of Sciences, and every major science organization in the world, are all wrong regarding the origins and development of life….but one particular tribe of uneducated, bronze aged, goat herders got it exactly right.” - Chuck Easttom
"If my good friend Doctor Gasparri speaks badly of my mother, he can expect to get punched.....You cannot provoke. You cannot insult the faith of others. You cannot make fun of the faith of others. There is a limit." - Pope Francis on freedom of speech
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:10 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 4:31 pm)Bad Wolf Wrote: Then why don't you have a name for this 'kind'? We have a name for the species, genus, class, family etc. It is the last of its kind, but it wasn't always. It's unique today. It is furry, has mammary glands and a beavers tail like a mammal. Yet it lays eggs, has a bill and webbed feet like a duck.
I'll ask again: What 'kind' is it?
You don't have a name for the 'kind' do you? Does this not demonstrate that the classification system used by science is superior to your religions system of kinds? I could name a hundred other species for which you have no 'kind' name for.
What part of "I don't know" don't you understand? What I am quite sure of tho..is whatever produced it was not a different "kind" than it is..and I wouldn't bet any money on it producing a non-platypus at any point in the future.
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:11 pm
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2014 at 6:13 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
Right, and this is also the position of evolutionary biology. Whatever the ancestor of a platypus is it wasn;t a different "kind" (because theres no such thing as a "kind" - clearly) and whatever comes forth from the loins of any given platypus will, itself, be a platypus.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:14 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 6:10 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: What part of "I don't know" don't you understand? What I am quite sure of tho..is whatever produced it was not a different "kind" than it is..and I wouldn't bet any money on it producing a non-platypus at any point in the future.
You need to seriously go and educate yourself on evolution, because right now your arguments aren't even applicable to what it is.
"YOU take the hard look in the mirror. You are everything that is wrong with this world. The only thing important to you, is you." - ronedee
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:19 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 4:17 pm)Rhythm Wrote: I finding out that Genesis isn't literally true is all it takes to shake a persons faith then it's a wonder a stiff breeze hadn't turned them into gnostic atheists by now. No one has an internal crisis over whether or not a fox and a hound dog were ever bffs.....
Imagine the indoctrination HisMajesty went through, and imagine that HisMajesty was capable of being reached...it's not the fact of evolution itself that would shake him up, it's the realization that the Bible isn't literally true. Fundamentalist literalism is rigid, and that makes it brittle.
My sample size may be skewed, but I've often noted in my freethought group how many of the ex-Christians are ex-fundamentalists.
Of course, my fundamentalism was broken by reading the Bible cover-to-cover twice, in two different translations. I remained an agnostic theist, and finding out evolution is probably true didn't shake that, it just reminded me that my Pentecostal pastors hardly ever said anything that was actually true.
However, I freely acknowledge that I may have been extra open to changing my mind in the face of evidence due to my sterling personal qualites.
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:21 pm
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2014 at 6:23 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(November 20, 2014 at 6:10 pm)His_Majesty Wrote: What part of "I don't know" don't you understand? What I am quite sure of tho..is whatever produced it was not a different "kind" than it is..and I wouldn't bet any money on it producing a non-platypus at any point in the future.
That part about "His Majesty doesn't know" which we don't understand is the part where "His Majesty" keeps flapping his ignorant lips without first seeking instruction on the basics of biological science - the sort of basics which any medicre junior high student from outside inbred evengelical yokelville would be ashamed of not knowing.
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:25 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Imagine the indoctrination HisMajesty went through, and imagine that HisMajesty was capable of being reached...it's not the fact of evolution itself that would shake him up, it's the realization that the Bible isn't literally true. Fundamentalist literalism is rigid, and that makes it brittle. Agreed, I think it's akin to having far too much territory than you can reasonably defend, and requiring every inch of it to continue plugging along. If there are more hills to die on than there are men to die on them - its going to be a pretty messy little valley before too long.
Quote:However, I freely acknowledge that I may have been extra open to changing my mind in the face of evidence due to my sterling personal qualites.
You're probably right..lol.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:29 pm
(This post was last modified: November 20, 2014 at 6:31 pm by Anomalocaris.)
(November 20, 2014 at 6:19 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: Imagine the indoctrination HisMajesty went through, and imagine that HisMajesty was capable of being reached...it's not the fact of evolution itself that would shake him up, it's the realization that the Bible isn't literally true. Fundamentalist literalism is rigid, and that makes it brittle.
I do not imagine he is capable of being reached. Those who are capable of being reached would not feel threatened by attempts to reach them.
This moron is all pompousness and bluster because his sense of self-worth is bond up in his delusions. He will not be reached. For him it is personal. For him not continuing to actually be fooled is unimportant. Not admitting to himself he could have been susceptible to being fooled is all important.
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RE: Atheism is unreasonable
November 20, 2014 at 6:35 pm
(November 20, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: You're projecting. For some reason, you think there's a problem with accepting the evidence for evolution and believing in God, despite there being millions of theists who do so. If evolution is true, that does not mean that God isn't. If God is real, it means God is a little more 'hands-off' than depicted in Genesis, that's all. And the evolution scenario isn't a problem for the God of deism at all.
I acknowledge that there are some within the Christian circle that believes in evolution, in fact, if I DID believe in evolution, I would be one of them.
(November 20, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: The main way in which accepting evolution as probably true deconverts Christians to atheism is when they've been repeatedly told that evolution is bunk and find out that they've been lied to when they honestly investigate it. It's a problem for overly-literal Biblical fundamentalists, finding out the Bible account of creation isn't literally true can shake their faith...but Christians who haven't been taught that evolution is a lie can weather learning all about evolutionary biology without their faith even being chipped.
Yeah, no doubt about it. But see, the Christian that believes in evolution would be one that would have a "doctrinal" disagreement with me...and I have doctrinal disagreements with my fellow Christian-mates all the time. That is why that is of no big concern to me...despite the fact that I think it is FLAT OUT WRONG to think that God used evolution as a creation mechanism.
(November 20, 2014 at 4:14 pm)Mister Agenda Wrote: I don't want to see atheists become a majority in the USA, because majorities tend to become complacent and entitled, but I do want us to become a large enough minority that we can't be safely ignored. Your contributions do more than I ever could on my own to shake any fundamentalists who happen to read this thread; and I want you to know I appreciate you being here. Planting a seed of doubt is one of the things I'm about.
Heyy, thanks. You know the old cliche saying that goes something like "I could give a motivational speech to a thousand kids, and if I manage to touch or inspire just one of them, my mission was accomplished"...something like that.
And for me, I am working on behalf of the kingdom of the living God. But my thing is this; it isn't just one argument against evolution, it is the totality of many different arguments which makes the theory virtually impossible, in my opinion...of course, I am talking about evolution without intelligent design (God).
You will still have the abiogenesis problem, the consciousness problem, the infinity problem, and the arguments that I believe refute the "evidence" presented for the theory.
Each one of these problems are INDEPEDENT of the other, and in order for the theory of evolution to be true, the evolutionists would have to tear down all four problems, since all four of these issues plays a great deal into the theory as a whole...and I don't think the evolutionist will ever be able to adquately respond to EITHER problem, let alone all four together.
These are serious problems that cannot be just swept up under the rug. Now, if you are REALLY opened-minded and want to see good arguments against the theory of evolution, just check out Kent Hovind...you may already be familiar with him, but he has been the most prominent anti-evolutionist that the world has ever seen...he is the William Lane Craig of anti-evolution...and his seminar's, lectures, debates have all been on youtube, and you should check him out because he has debated some pretty prominent folks in the field of biology, like Massimo Pigliucci, Eugenie Scott, Kenneth Miller, Michael Shermer (not a biologist).
Good stuff.
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