Posts: 2461
Threads: 16
Joined: November 12, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:23 am
(June 9, 2015 at 12:59 am)robvalue Wrote: ...
I hear this weird argument a lot, "Why don't you want there to be an afterlife?" As if the existence of an afterlife depends on whether or not I believe in it, or claim knowledge about it, before it happens.
...
I think a lot of our behavior and thinking is shaped by what we want to believe is true. That's how religion got me for so many years. I differ with Atheists pretty heavily on morality, so this isn't particularly relevant to anyone but me. But I always thought of "Humans have value" as a fact. And then I unpackage an idea like that, and I arrived at something like God.
To which you would reply, you don't need God to conclude humans have value! To which I reply, it doesn't matter, because Humans don't have value. And then you launch into your own (to me) apologetics about how we all have opposable thumbs, and i feel pain and you feel pain, and a bunch of other wonky kind of related stuff.
But what it comes down to, is we want to believe humans have value. That's a nice thought. That how we treat each other matters. And that's what a lot of beliefs stem from, right or wrong. It's the same idea. A comforting conclusion birthing a shaky rationale.
And it makes sense when you look at the timeline too. Because, for example,, we are taught murder is wrong. We are given a shallow explanation of why murder is wrong. And then much later, when we finally have the brain power to start thinking on our own, that's when we really try to figure out why we believe murder is wrong. Nobody is thinking "I wonder if murder is really wrong?" They already hooked us with a premise we'll never truly be able to look at objectively. It's fascinating stuff, I think.
Posts: 2461
Threads: 16
Joined: November 12, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:26 am
The problem with the Pascal's wager, is that believing in God is a lot like not objectifying women.
I can pretend to not want to see your tits. I can not talk about wanting to see your tits. I can resist taking a peak at them. But in the end, I can't actually not want to see the boobies.
Same goes for God. If you don't believe in Him, you don't believe in Him. The best you can do is pretend.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:30 am
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2015 at 1:32 am by robvalue.)
I don't claim humans have objective value at all. The only value they have is that granted to them by other forms of life. This is true about everything. Value is an abstract notion, which I'm sure has evolutionary explanations. Those humans that value each other are going to work together better and have a better chance of survival.
As for tits, yes indeed. I can pretend to believe in God, or in any particular God. Why anyone would want me to do that is puzzling. Why Randy thinks his God is so stupid/petty that he would be impressed by someone pretending to believe in him, I don't know.
Posts: 31196
Threads: 1386
Joined: March 15, 2013
Reputation:
152
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:31 am
I value this forum like I value taking a shit. Both satisfy me.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
Posts: 2461
Threads: 16
Joined: November 12, 2013
Reputation:
17
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:33 am
(June 9, 2015 at 1:30 am)robvalue Wrote: I don't claim humans have objective value at all. The only value they have is that granted to them by other forms of life. This is true about everything. Value is an abstract notion, which I'm sure has evolutionary explanations. Those humans that value each other are going to work together better and have a better chance of survival.
It's a workaround. We have no objective value, but we can value each other, and evolution says we all do. So, what's the difference?
You still get to where you want to go.
Posts: 29107
Threads: 218
Joined: August 9, 2014
Reputation:
155
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:41 am
(This post was last modified: June 9, 2015 at 1:42 am by robvalue.)
I'm not sure what you mean. Where do I want to go?
Evolution doesn't "say" anything, and clearly we don't all value each other. It's an explanation for the fact that we do, on the whole, value each other. That isn't to say that this notion of value is itself a "good thing". It's an observation.
Posts: 844
Threads: 40
Joined: August 19, 2014
Reputation:
11
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 1:49 am
Evolution does value reproduction, guess the Catholics have us all beet there.
Posts: 19561
Threads: 177
Joined: July 31, 2012
Reputation:
92
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 9, 2015 at 4:17 am
(June 9, 2015 at 1:30 am)robvalue Wrote: As for tits, yes indeed. I can pretend to believe in God, or in any particular God. Why anyone would want me to do that is puzzling. Why Randy thinks his God is so stupid/petty that he would be impressed by someone pretending to believe in him, I don't know.
Because they play the long con.
It doesn't matter if your generation doesn't really believe... as long as you play along and pretend, others will think you believe and take it from there: everyone around me believes - it must be true - argument ad populum inherent to most people.
Posts: 4659
Threads: 123
Joined: June 27, 2014
Reputation:
40
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 10, 2015 at 9:41 am
Some questions for you:
What do you think about the pope? Do you agree him on everything or don't care? Something in between?
What do you consider yourself politically? Conservative? Liberal?
How do you deal with catholics who disagree with you on some issues?
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you
Posts: 23918
Threads: 300
Joined: June 25, 2011
Reputation:
151
RE: Ask a Catholic
June 10, 2015 at 10:33 am
(June 10, 2015 at 9:41 am)Dystopia Wrote: Some questions for you:
[1] What do you think about the pope? Do you agree him on everything or don't care? Something in between?
[2] What do you consider yourself politically? Conservative? Liberal?
[3] How do you deal with catholics who disagree with you on some issues?
Let me have a go at this. Poor Randy has been working so hard.
1 Agrees with the pope wherever the pope agrees with him, so mostly everywhere.
2 Conservative or declines to state.
3 Prays for them.
|
