Quick Poll - Do you believe in God?

[Ace Otana]

I believe there's something greater than us out there.

So do I. Suns, galaxies, the universe, laws of nature.

Just as I'm annoyed with Atheists who take it as concrete proof that there is no God, the absence of proof of Its existence.

Well I'm not one of them. I don't claim to know there is no god. I just don't believe it exists. I've seen no good reason or evidence to suggest that a god even exists. So I dismiss it.

In the end, I think believing or not believing is merely a choice, as neither of us have proof either way

For me I didn't choose not to believe. I just don't believe.

[Kayenneh]

I DO believe in God. Or something, called God by convenience. As I believe in spirits, force and energy, I believe there's something greater than us out there. But I don't believe in the God created by Church, by Religion or by the Bible. I just believe there's something out there.

Hmmm.. Sounds like me anno 2005. That was until I called myself on my own bullshit.

I'm very annoyed by Christians who believe in God because they "feel it in their hearts" and because "it's in the Bible". Just as I'm annoyed with Atheists who take it as concrete proof that there is no God, the absence of proof of Its existence.

Didn't you just say that you feel that there's something akin to a god out there? What's the difference between your feeling and their feeling? You just happen to be right because you don't support organized religion? Wake up and smell the pancakes, kettle!

[Brian37]

I DO believe in God. Or something, called God by convenience. As I believe in spirits, force and energy, I believe there's something greater than us out there. But I don't believe in the God created by Church, by Religion or by the Bible. I just believe there's something out there.

Hmmm.. Sounds like me anno 2005. That was until I called myself on my own bullshit.

I'm very annoyed by Christians who believe in God because they "feel it in their hearts" and because "it's in the Bible". Just as I'm annoyed with Atheists who take it as concrete proof that there is no God, the absence of proof of Its existence.

Didn't you just say that you feel that there's something akin to a god out there? What's the difference between your feeling and their feeling? You just happen to be right because you don't support organized religion? Wake up and smell the pancakes, kettle!

You know that many of us who are now atheists, like you and I, did not suddenly jump from belief to outright opposite. For most we went from a specific label, to not sure, to "less likely, but not sure", to "off". That journey can take months years and even, in my case almost a decade.

But in regards to Barbie, the question you seriously need to ask yourself is not what you believe, but WHY you feel the need to jump to such a conclusion?

After looking back at that same feeling you claim to have of "something" being out there, is nothing more than wanting something to be behind all this because of mistaking your "sense of awe" as being the result of a cosmic cognition.

I can have that same "sense of awe" in things like a sunset, kitten, loved one, and lots of things in nature. But I also have a "sense of awe" in the destructive side of reality such as volcanos, poisonous species, black holes.

If you want to know the mental mistake you are making a good example would be:

If you think their is "something" out there manipulating all this, take a trip into space orbit, take a space walk, and take your helmet off in space. I would not recommend it.

I view all the AWESOME things in the universe and life on this planet, not products like a business makes or an inventor makes, but the product of processes that need no cognition. Just like you know that a hurricane does not need an ocean god to be produced. Just like you know that Thor does not make lightening. There is no need for a who, for anything in the history of our universe to happen, anymore than the sun has to be a god or the moon has to be a god for our planet's seasons to change.

I can still appreciate all the good and bad that affect human life without inserting a personal anthropomorphic wish of wanting a super hero to exist. Evolution was around long before humans invented gods and personal superstitions and evolution will occur long after our species goes extinct, much like it continued after the dinos went extinct.

That does not make me fatalistic or pessimistic. It merely means I accept reality as it is, and do not project my personal wishes onto it. I still have joy and sadness and ups and downs in my life, I simply don't make up answers to explain what has always happened in our species history, both good and bad.

[Kayenneh]

You know that many of us who are now atheists, like you and I, did not suddenly jump from belief to outright opposite. For most we went from a specific label, to not sure, to "less likely, but not sure", to "off". That journey can take months years and even, in my case almost a decade.

Absolutely. It is sometimes a long and hard process, for me it took years to get rid of my faith. But by constantly questioning my own belifs I got to this point. I think Barbie is on a very good path, denouncing organized religion, but I cannot stand the hypocrisy of believing in something ridiculous and then have the stomach to blame others for doing the same.

[MountOlympus]

Speaking of which, was there ever a "Mother Mary Barbie?"

[Barbie]

Didn't you just say that you feel that there's something akin to a god out there? What's the difference between your feeling and their feeling? You just happen to be right because you don't support organized religion? Wake up and smell the pancakes, kettle!

Nope, I never used the word feel concerning my own beliefs, just read up! I just said I believe. My beliefs aren't based on feeling, guts or anything, because, as I said, I would never assume that because I feel it, it would make it for something to exist. That's just plain and simple arrogant. As I don't count my beliefs to be the truth. They're my beliefs. I come from a family of "mediums", if you want to call them that. My mom has seen spirits since she was a child. She doesn't really talk to them most times, nor she helps them "crossover" like you see it on television, but she's seen them since she was a toddler. So has my grandfather. She's a completely normal, down-to-earth person, with absolutely no signs of insanity. In fact, she'll never even talk about it. She doesn't like to. It's something as natural to her as seeing live people. But, when I was a kid, she told me, "Barbara, either spirits exist, or I'm crazy. I'd rather believe they exist."

I guess I believe in something greater because I believe in something minor. Though I don't believe in religion, I'm very interested in reading a doctrine called Spiritualism, propelled by Allan Kardec in France, then down to Latin America.

Lately, more and more people who believe too much have been suffocating me. I'd like to see the other side of the coin.

---

You know that many of us who are now atheists, like you and I, did not suddenly jump from belief to outright opposite. For most we went from a specific label, to not sure, to "less likely, but not sure", to "off". That journey can take months years and even, in my case almost a decade.

Absolutely. It is sometimes a long and hard process, for me it took years to get rid of my faith. But by constantly questioning my own belifs I got to this point. I think Barbie is on a very good path, denouncing organized religion, but I cannot stand the hypocrisy of believing in something ridiculous and then have the stomach to blame others for doing the same.

Lady, you've got me all wrong. I've never claimed my beliefs to be absolute, nor have I said that because I feel whatever it makes it right. I'm the first person to the open to the possibility of non-existence, much more to the possibility of religions being right, though I believe it's something right in the middle.

Though, I doubt it I'll stop believing some day, I'll never stop having an open mind about it.

[Ryantology]

I guess I believe in something greater because I believe in something minor. Though I don't believe in religion, I'm very interested in reading a doctrine called Spiritualism, propelled by Allan Kardec in France, then down to Latin America.

Though atheists are known to call out, say, a Christian on his ideals of God compared to the evil tyrant depicted in the Bible, most atheists I know treat that as beside the point. I think what Kayenneh is getting at is that, to us (if I can assume I speak for her and a lot of others), your beliefs are exactly as unlikely to be true as those of a hardcore Christian fundamentalist because the disbelief of the supernatural means we automatically reject all specific examples of supernatural beings or concepts.

The erosion of my faith has taken most of my adult life to complete, but there are some who do lose it in a powerful instant. My girlfriend is an example. She was a reasonably observant Jew until she suffered a terrible tragedy involving her fiance. It murdered her faith. She doesn't miss that, at least, because it meant she could discover the joys of bacon. I really don't think there are that many people who suddenly give up faith as the result of an argument or mere intellectual consideration, though. Faith is a personal thing for the people who have it, I think it usually takes a significant life experience to really get things started.

[Kayenneh]

Nope, I never used the word feel concerning my own beliefs, just read up! I just said I believe. My beliefs aren't based on feeling, guts or anything, because, as I said, I would never assume that because I feel it, it would make it for something to exist.

I did read, and the implication is there. Believing stems from feeling, since otherwise it would be called knowledge.

As I don't count my beliefs to be the truth. They're my beliefs.

Nor are they the truth. I could state that Voldemort lives in my closet and we would be on equal ground.
Of course you are entitled to whatever you believe. As I stated before I think it's arrogant that you seem to think it fit to judge others who 'merely believe'. The believes are theirs, just as yours are yours.

I come from a family of "mediums", if you want to call them that. My mom has seen spirits since she was a child. She doesn't really talk to them most times, nor she helps them "crossover" like you see it on television, but she's seen them since she was a toddler. So has my grandfather. She's a completely normal, down-to-earth person, with absolutely no signs of insanity. In fact, she'll never even talk about it. She doesn't like to. It's something as natural to her as seeing live people. But, when I was a kid, she told me, "Barbara, either spirits exist, or I'm crazy. I'd rather believe they exist."

Point out the gene to me that is inherited in your family and research about 'spirits' and I will believe you. Before that I say that it is highly unlikely that such things exist.

I guess I believe in something greater because I believe in something minor. Though I don't believe in religion, I'm very interested in reading a doctrine called Spiritualism, propelled by Allan Kardec in France, then down to Latin America.

As Ace pointed out, you don't have to believe in something greater, that has been proven a long time ago. And funny that you don't believe in religion, when it's evident that such a thing exists (albeit it is an unfortunate fact).

Lately, more and more people who believe too much have been suffocating me.

Believe too much? Then pray tell, what is the proper amount of belief?

Lady, you've got me all wrong. I've never claimed my beliefs to be absolute, nor have I said that because I feel whatever it makes it right.

Might be that I have, but when I read your post these were the thoughts evoked in me. You haven't indeed claimed your beliefs to be absolute, but let me illuminate my point of view, in case you have misunderstood me. You're like the fat person calling out the morbidly obese, the pickpocket who judges the bank robber, the stupid person laughing at the retard (and no, I'm not calling you names, these are merely illustrative similes).

So let me finally ask this question, what is really the difference between your belief and let's say a christian's? Because it is this point that evades me.

Though, I doubt it I'll stop believing some day, I'll never stop having an open mind about it.

That is your freedom and I wish to not to take it away from anyone. I guess being open-minded is the best any of us can do in the end.

[MeasH]

Nope. Simple as that.

[TaraJo]

A long time ago, I made a deal with God and it still stands. If there is an all knowing God that wants me to worship him, it is well within his power to reveal himself to me and convince me that he exists and is God and is worthy of being worshiped. If he's not revealing himself to me, that means that either he doesn't exist, he doesn't want me to believe he exists or he doesn't care if anyone believes in him. Either way, if God exists, he wants me to be an atheist and who am I to question God?