RE: Why do Atheists defend Islam?
December 14, 2015 at 3:14 am
(This post was last modified: December 14, 2015 at 3:41 am by WinterHold.)
Quote:The "correct" literal translation? There are a number of translations, and you picked one. A controversial one at that. Not that it even makes a difference here.
No, actually you missed that I'm an Arab (yes; Arabic is my native tongue ) So my translations are quite literal.
As a small Arabic lesson : slave in arabic is written "Abd = عبد". While the verse speaks about "Molk al yameen = ملك اليمين".
Quote:Agreed to serve you in exchange of safety and income? Safety from who, you? Then why did they come from prisoners of war ("that Allah has given you")? Why were they only allowed to be set free under very limited circumstances, sometimes only as a punishment to the owner? Why were you still allowed to have sex with the "molk" al yameen even if she was married?
Hello ? we're speaking about 1400 years ago ? people with no homes ? poor people who got overrun by raiders and gangs of cutthroats ?
In the modern era, you have the homeless and...let's say millions of Africans ?
Or you're saying, that it's an unethical thing to agree with a homeless man to protect him from the cold and from hunger, in exchange of his service (maybe helping me organizing my office or watch an estate I posses?
Actually, think about the differences between this, and slavery.
Quote:What about the fact that men are allowed to rape their wives, to say nothing for now of their (I'm going to keep calling them) slaves? 2:223: "Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will"
It can also refer strongly, to the allowance of the "banging act" at all times, including (for example) the holy month of Ramadan ? why does your mind jump immediately to rape ?
And please, quote the previous verse so the context becomes clear.
Actually it says : stay away from sex during menstruation, after that, your wives are tilth unto you, so approach your tilth whenever you want to.
( Sura 2 222 ) And they ask you about menstruation. Say, "It is harm, so keep away from wives during menstruation. And do not approach them until they are pure. And when they have purified themselves, then come to them from where Allah has ordained for you. Indeed, Allah loves those who are constantly repentant and loves those who purify themselves."
( Sura 2 223 ) Your wives are a place of sowing of seed for you, so come to your place of cultivation however you wish and put forth [righteousness] for yourselves. And fear Allah and know that you will meet Him. And give good tidings to the believers.
So in other words, honey bunny want to "tootoo" with me. But she's full of menses. So I'll tell her : dear, keep out for now, it's nasty even though I'm a vampire (if you get my meaning :p) . After her menses is over, it's fine to eat her private parts all year long ^_^. mmmm I don't see rape ?? Rather, a lovely description for women ?? , and a verse that prevents sexist from calling their wives names because of the menstruation. If you miss it, a lot of men used to view women as "lesser & filthy" due to menstruation.
Quote:And I'm trying to stick to just the Quran here. Looking at history and the very life of Muhammad, I think permission and encouragement of slavery is evident. I think you must be trying to find your information from apologists like Christians do with sites like answersingenesis. It is kinda ridiculous.. on a big-picture level, I simply don't believe that everything that originated from some silly cult in the 600s has some good, righteous explanation. Apologists distort, make things up, rationalize, omit things, and draw only from examples which help their case. Any reasonable person sees this stuff and it's entirely clear that it is about what you would expect from religious zealots around that time.
If you stick to the Quran, I'm totally with that. It's full of verses calling to free slaves, anyhow.