(March 31, 2016 at 10:08 am)LadyForCamus Wrote:(March 31, 2016 at 9:53 am)athrock Wrote: I don't see why complexity cannot emerge or evolve naturally, but the general idea of Intelligent Design (I think) is that the Designer was not designed by anyone or thing nor did it emerge naturally.
It's reasonable to say that whatever begins to exist must have a cause. For example, a cornbread muffin does not simply exist on its own or bring itself into existence. The cause of its existence is a baker. This principle of causation holds regardless of how big or small the thing in question may be – whether it is a muffin, a house, a planet or the entire universe. And if the universe began to exist, and scientists seem to agree that it did, then the universe had a cause.
Further, if something exists, there must also exist that which is necessary for that thing to exist. So, if the universe – that is, the sum of all physical matter, space, and time – exists, there must also exist whatever is necessary for the universe to exist. But, that which is necessary cannot be part of the universe, exist within it or be bounded by space and time because nothing that is within the universe can bring itself into existence. In other words, whatever is necessary for the universe to exist must be outside the universe and transcend both space and time. So, if the universe began to exist, it must have had a cause which is outside the universe itself and which transcends both space and time.
Going further still, the apparent fine-tuning of the universe which was necessary for the existence of life suggests the existence of an intelligent designer.
This intelligent designer which exists outside the universe and beyond space and time is what we call "God".
Can you please provide evidence that everything which exists needs a cause? You don't get to go any further with your argument until you do that. Those are an awful lot of bald assertions about the nature of the universe and the matter contained within it being put forth by someone who I am pretty sure is neither a physicist nor a cosmologist. You better back them up.
And btw...outside of space and time means outside of existence...which means not in existence...which means...God isn't fucking real. [emoji12]
Can you provide any evidence of things simply popping into existence from nothing? You don't to go any further with your argument until you do that.
Are YOU a physicist or a cosmologist?
And btw..."outside of space and time" means "outside of space and time"....not "outside of existence". Numbers exist outside of space and time...they don't take up space and they are unaffected by time...which means that your <cough> "logic" is not real.