Shia Islamic Argument for the existence of God

[ReptilianPeon]

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I've made an even better summary of the Demonstration of the Veracious (DOTV) for everyone. The DOTV proves (or simply brings our attention to) the existence of an infinite Necessary Existent. It does not prove the existence of a deity, at least not without some attribute tracings that come thereafter. But once the existence of an infinite Necessary Existent is known, the tracings make it apparent that this thing can be called a deity. But what we need to know first is whether there even is an infinite Necessary Existent, and that is why I'm here on this forum. That's all I want to confirm right now. Here is the DOTV, Allamah Tabatabai's version, simplified and summarized by me:

We start off with the primary proposition “There is at least one reality”. This proposition must be true in every real condition, because such conditions are themselves realities – and thus they themselves confirm the truth of the primary proposition. Since the proposition is eternally necessarily true in every real condition, the extension of the reality mentioned in the proposition must be an eternally necessarily existing reality (or realities), i.e. a Necessary Existent(s). A Necessary Existent cannot be a finite reality because a Necessary Existent exists unconditionally – but finite realities only exist within certain conditions, outside of which they don't exist (which is why they’re called finite). So there must be an absolute, infinite Necessary Existent(s).

I challenge every atheist here to find anything illogical in this proof for an infinite Necessary Existent. Everyone who has posted so far has failed to do so, for reasons elaborated in my responses.

Why why whhyyy do Shia write a lot ?? guys; you and mystic; I swear I got a headache from your posts, the member "mystic" would explain this headache as demon possession, but whatever..

Writing a lot means that you have nothing; it means you are practicing word gymnastics to cover a certain inferiority in your method and logic !

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I don't think I've seen anything in the argument (Proof of the Veracious) itself that makes it so a non-Shia can't use it. So maybe you could refine it? Refine it and trim the excess. Ibn Sina was very intelligent person - and just because he was (probably) Shia doesn't mean he has to be dismissed. We are assured that this argument has links to the Quran in the first post in this topic, if you look at it closely (more on that later).

Every religious person knows Kalam and that is from Sunni. I suppose one could argue that an Iyaht Quran 52:35 might be where people go the idea from Kalam from. But I always find it funny when Kuffar use the argument. The argument is so vague that there is nothing in it that points to any particular deity.

But anyway, Atlas, you said there are enough proofs in just the Quran. So I don't know why I don't see the first post in this topic, the one laying out the Proof of the Veracious claim, any Quran Iyaht. TheMuslim tells us in the first post of this topic that Ibn Sina says that he derived the Proof of the Veracious from the Quran and Hadiths.

Maybe the key is the Shia Hadith. But apparently there is support for the argument in the Quran. But I don't why I should take literature that says graves the Sahabah will be dug up by an Imam or whatever (which is rather "eh?") seriously, but maybe TheMuslim will convince me otherwise. I mean, why waste your time on grudges. Does the Quran really not say anywhere to forgive people? If Allah is really on the side of the Imams there is no need to dig up graves because those (evil) people will be suffering in the hellfire anyway, right? Is the Hellfire not punishment enough?

It seems excessive to dig up the graves. You appear on the Earth and one of the first things that you do is dig up the graves of your enemies? That's just silly. And it's certainly not going to win people over.

I am sure that you would also like to know of these Quran Iyaht. If Proof of the Veracious is in the Quran, as has been claimed by Ibn Sina (and, therefore, TheMuslim), we would expect to find the Iyaht. So perhaps TheMuslim can elaborate on that?

How many different species will in the ensuing word salad, I wonder, Atlas? Yes, one can take words to do gymnastics, but they can also make a fine salad. And then you add a bit of Shia seasoning on the top. I don't know if it will make nice salad. But we'll see.

My post was somewhat long so I hope I have avoided a word entreé. Word salads can be a fun thing to delve into. Often contradicting flavours are added. So I hope we can exmine these Quran Iyaht.