[split] The Newly Departed thread: announcements (departures)

[Edwardo Piet]

See, but now you're making me feel bad because I did accept your thank you and then just continued having a conversation. You're putting the onus of your emotions on me, which isn't fair from a friend.

I'm not making you feel bad. We own our own emotions.

How am I putting my emotions on you if you're telling me that I'm making you feel bad? Isn't it the other way around? Aren't you putting your emotions on me by saying that I'm making you feel bad?

(I know you're going to debate this, but there is no other way to take it. You talk about how I didn't take your post the right way and no you feel so alone and misunderstood. Seriously?)

There is another way to take it. (And yes I'm going to debate it and that's fine right?). I talk about how I feel alone and misunderstood. That doesn't mean I am. I'm not putting anything on you. You're not responsible for my feelings. I'm sorry that you feel bad that I feel bad but you're not responsible for how I feel and I'm sorry you feel that way

I never said that you accepting it when given is the same as excessively seeking it.

I know. I was just saying that I don't agree that I excessively seek it or even seek it at all.

I said it looks like you're excessively seeking it from my perspective.

Which is fine! And I'm trying to say that I'm not excessively seeking it from my perspective

Coming here and talking about your feelings and only accepting responses that are reassuring/arguing with those that aren't reassuring looks suspiciously like reassurance seeking.

I disagree with the advice and I accept the reassurance when it makes me feel better. I understand that from your perspective it looks like reassurance seeking and I also understand that from my perspective it certainly doesn't.

You act like admitting you might do something that is human to do is wrong. You make it seem like I'm saying excessive reassurance seeking makes you a bad person.

I'm sorry you feel that way That's not what I meant at all. I don't think it makes me a bad person. I just think it isn't true. Remember, I said I don't think I'm excessively seeking reassurance? I just don't agree and I keep trying to tell you that. There's no hidden meaning behind what I'm saying I literally meant that I don't agree. And that's okay It's okay that we disagree. It's okay that I think reassurance is helpful to me. It's okay that I like advice from my friends when I seek it and I like reassurance when I'm upset. That's okay, right?

I'm just saying that for someone who claims he knows all the right things to do, you're feeling awful an awful lot.

I feel good an awful lot too!

This is normal for me. There are explanations for why I've been more downhearted lately. The point is that I'm fine and I'm already getting help. But of course I love it when you cheer me up. There's nothing that needs fixing, it's just nice when I'm cheered up sooner rather than later. I always deal with things in my own way but friends are there to support each other and it's nice when I'm reassured. I love my friends.

Friends spot that stuff and try to help by giving advice. If you don't want help, you've chosen the wrong friends, clearly.

See now this is the sort of thing that bothers me. I don't like it when I'm told I don't want help just because I refuse a piece of advice. I could refuse advice a million times in a row and it doesn't mean I don't want help. I want help and advice when I ask for it and I'll follow it when I agree with it.

I really don't like it when I don't accept advice and someone says to me "well you clearly don't want my help then so I won't help you in future" or some shit like that. That's the kind of thing that bothers me.

Of course I want help from you and from my other friends. It doesn't mean I want advice without asking for it and even if I ask for it it doesn't mean that I'll necessarily agree. It's also fine to offer advice when I don't ask for it but when I've turned it down I want that to be that. I follow advice that I agree with. It doesn't matter how many times I disagree with advice it doesn't mean I don't want advice. I'll never know whether I'm going to agree with something until I'm offered it. I tend to prefer to be given advice when I ask for it because then at least I can be prepared for someone telling me I don't want their help if i turn it down. Most advice I refuse because most advice I'm already aware of and I'd already follow it if I agreed with it. But of course I want help and advice. I just might not agree with it and that's okay. I wouldn't think that you wouldn't want my advice if you didn't agree with it or follow it. And if you ever want my advice just ask and I'll offer it And it's fine if you disagree. I'd never say that you don't want my help I don't do that

Sorry I disagreed with you and responded to your posts about your feelings. I'm not full of shit. I'm actually quite sorry I tried to be helpful in the only ways I know how, by offering advice.

That wasn't about you Shell.. I'm sorry you thought it was. I said that I'm starting to feel like most people are full of shit. You're certainly not most people. That wasn't about you. That was regarding how this whole thing started where I express my emotions and get called childish for doing so because they can't handle it and they feel guilt tripped when I'm upset even though that's not my intention. You never called me childish. That wasn't about you.

You're certainly not full of shit. You're very honest.

Your advice is fine. Please don't be sorry or believe you wasted your time for offering your advice just because I disagreed with it. Yes you disagreed, there's no reason to be sorry about that. I disagreed too. We disagree. That's fine. It's no biggie if I don't agree with your advice it doesn't mean I don't want help or that you shouldn't bother next time, yeah?

I'm sorry that you felt like I made you feel bad. I don't think we made each other feel bad I feel like we are responsible for our own feelings. But I still feel sorry that I said something and then you reacted by saying that I made you feel bad because I don't want you to feel bad if I can help it.

I'm sorry I'm such a crappy communicator. This is my opinion. I feel like a crappy communicator. Sometimes at least. I feel like I cause misunderstandings.

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I just want to point out that advising someone to perhaps not bespeak every emotion at the time it is experienced is not emotionally phobic in and of itself. It can indicate such a state of mind, or something else entirely.

Those who know me know I'm an intensely emotional man. I simply find that broadcasting those emotions and then reacting inwardly to the responses I get is not good for my emotional balance.

Yeah of course not. But what I'm trying to say is that people who call me childish for expressing my emotions or tell me I'm having a 'meltdown' are perhaps emotionally phobic.

My point is that it's okay to feel whatever we feel and it's okay to express whatever we feel. It's how we express it. If we can express our emotions calmly, and rationally, and verbally... then that's mature. If someone says we're guilt-tripping them or they say we're playing the victim or they call us childish when we say "I feel hurt by what you said", or something to that effect, then we're not the one who can't handle emotions maturely.

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Anyway, I've probably overexplained all this.

My final word will be that I have at least one friend who does get this. I can express however I feel and they can express however they feel and it's fine, and we can have disagreements and it's fine, and no one has to walk on eggshells or hold anything in. It's absolutely fucking fantastic and I wish more people had that kind of emotional maturity. See, sometimes I think being in the minority is seen as anti-social and controversial but it certainly doesn't make it wrong. It's far far more wonderful to be able to just verbally express how we feel and it''s fine, no pretension, no holding things back, no losing control. Just honest, direct, mature emotional expression. It's truly wonderful. Wish it was more common.

The sad reality is that, yes, it isn't more common. It's seen as anti-social because most people like to take offence and overreact to so-called 'negative emotions' even when they're expressed calmly. We get angry or upset or hurt and people overreact and exaggerate and take it personally instead of realizing that how we feel about them in the moment is just an emotion and doesn't represent the friendship or how much we respect and care about them. Part of emotional maturity is indeed catering to the fact that most people aren't above average in emotional maturity. I struggle with that part but that's due to my high expectations of people I care about.