Theistic Inclinations

[Catholic_Lady]

I like the bolded part, and that's what I think too. If a person genuinely seeks goodness and truth and strives to live by it to the best of his understanding, God can work with that. Even if such a person doesn't believe God exists prior to his death. I still don't see how we can entirely blame someone for simply not believing any particular thing exists if they have not seen convincing proof of it. Refusing to believe because you don't like it or can't be bothered is one thing. But not believing because you just genuinely can't bring yourself to think it's real, is entirely different. And I think the vast majority of unbelievers fall into this latter category. 

I understand that there are passages in the bible that say things that make it sound like whoever doesn't think God/Jesus is real won't be "saved." But there are also passages in the bible condemning legalism and stressing the spirit of the law. Jesus called out the Pharisees so many times for their hard headed thinking and quickness to dismiss people. I don't think God would be as simple and small as to have planned for everyone who does not think He exists during their lifetime on earth to be damned immediately upon dying. I think God is much bigger and deeper than that.

How do you feel about what I said regarding people still having a chance to choose after they die and are made fully aware?

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I think He's so much greater than many of us give Him credit for.

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A protestant friend of mine (who's a pastor and a truly excellent person who would do anything for anyone) is one of those people who I was incredibly surprised to learn held the belief that all non Christians were going to Hell. I disagree with him completely, and can't understand the concept of thinking that way. I even asked him "What about people like Ghandi? He was not Christian, but he was clearly a man who stood for justice and goodness, and who sought truth to the best of his understanding. Did he go to Hell simply because he was not Christian?" His response was "probably." His reasoning is similar to what Chad said: that we are all deserving of Hell, and that Jesus died to save us from that. So we must believe in Him in order for that salvation to become effective for us. I see how they would come to this conclusion by certain things the bible says. But I find it extremely simplistic, and ignores so much... like how great and merciful God is. How Jesus showed us His love for all people and how He stood against simplistic, legalistic views.

Why don't all these people who have such a tight "relationship with god" agree with the even the basic tenets of christianity?  What is the point of the relationship when practically everyone who has one says different things?

I definitely wouldn't say opinions on the fate of other people's souls are a "basic tenet of Christianity."

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I still don't see how we can entirely blame someone for simply not believing any particular thing exists if they have not seen convincing proof of it. Refusing to believe because you don't like it or can't be bothered is one thing. But not believing because you just genuinely can't bring yourself to think it's real, is entirely different. And I think the vast majority of unbelievers fall into this latter category.

A common topic on AF is how much evidence is required to believe in God. I think it is pretty clear that for the overwhelming majority of AF members, no amount of evidence would be sufficient. As far as I’m concerned, God is not as hidden as they suggest. Everyone knows that some things are right and some things are wrong. It takes a special effort to believe in moral relativism. Everyone senses the transcendent in things of great beauty. It takes a special effort to attribute those feelings to just physiological responses. Anyone can see that things are not right in the world and that most often we have only ourselves to blame. It takes a special effort to consider yourself blameless in all this mess. The list goes on. That is what Paul is talking about; they suppress the truth in unrighteousness.

How do you feel about what I said regarding people still having a chance to choose after they die and are made fully aware?

In Revelation 21, John describes gates in the walls of the New Jerusalem and specifically states in verse 25 that they will never be closed. Then, in verse 27 it says that only those whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life will ever enter. To me that means that God eternally invites all to join Him but that the unrighteous eternally reject that offer.

I agree that Hell is the state of constant rejection of God (of goodness and love) in the afterlife. In rejecting goodness and love, we make ourselves miserable because we were made to be fulfilled by those things. This is what we have come to call "Hell." 

But that only works to support my theory that the full rejection doesn't happen until after the person dies. A person can be an unbeliever during their life time, and then humble themselves before God when they die and see that He exists.

I try to assume the best of people when it comes to this, as we were told by Jesus not to judge the state of another person's soul.