(September 7, 2017 at 4:43 pm)bennyboy Wrote:(September 7, 2017 at 2:55 pm)alpha male Wrote: We make decisions all the time without a clear metric to evaluate evidence.Not decisions that require major changes to our world views, we don't.
OK. Let's see the result of your various positions:
1. Atheists have decided to be theists.
2. Such decision requires a major change to world view.
3. People don't make decisions that require major changes to world view without a clear metric to evaluate evidence.
3. There's no evidence for religious beliefs other than testimony.
4. Therefore, testimony is evidence which can be evaluated by a clear metric.
Quote:Sure. So. . . giving testimony and arguing for its validity is a hobby, something to do just for hoots, I suppose?
I'm not giving my testimony. I'm not an evangelist, and I believe proselytizing is against the rules here (and I've never received a warning about it). I'm in the philosophy section discussing testimony as evidence. I've included secular examples (smoking) as well as religious, but you don't want to engage on that because whether you agree or disagree, your position is hurt.
Here's another secular case: Do you believe Abraham Lincoln gave a speech in Gettysburg on Nov. 19, 1863? If so, on what evidence do you base your belief?
Quote:Paul (a) was motivated to tell the world about Jesus; (b) wasn't motivated to tell the world about Jesus. If he was motivated, there was a reason for his motivation.
Correct. Since he had previously been a rising star in the dominant religion of his people, there's no apparent reason for him to abandon that religion and at times oppose it. So, his actions support the position that he actually believed what he was saying. Doesn't mean it was true, but it indicates that he believed it.
With Mohammed, he may have believed what he said, but since his testimony resulted in significant earthly benefits, there's greater chance that he invented it for his own good.
With FSM, we know the creator didn't believe it himself.
Quote:The satisfaction of a motivation is seen as a benefit by a motivated part.
Without another real benefit, that's completely circular.
Quote:On what basis will you claim that Jesus suffered.
I'll claim that Jesus and Paul suffered on the basis of the Bible. You said the Muslim will do the same thing. How?