Testimony is Evidence

[bennyboy]

OK. Let's see the result of your various positions:

1. Atheists have decided to be theists.
2. Such decision requires a major change to world view.
3. People don't make decisions that require major changes to world view without a clear metric to evaluate evidence.
3. There's no evidence for religious beliefs other than testimony.
4. Therefore, testimony is evidence which can be evaluated by a clear metric.

Yes. Some atheists have been in a mental state in which the religious testimony of Christians or others have caused them to adopt that religion. Remember what I said before-- that each listener sets his own standard for what experiences he will consider sufficiently valuable to take as evidence.

I think very few atheists indeed are likely to convert to theism based on the quality of the evidence presented. I think it's more likely that an atheist will have a psychological troubling event, like the death of a family member, and suspend the requirement of evidence to be objective.

Here's another secular case: Do you believe Abraham Lincoln gave a speech in Gettysburg on Nov. 19, 1863? If so, on what evidence do you base your belief?

There's a certain convergence of verbal and printed accounts, photographs and so on which make it pretty certain to me that Lincoln existed, became president, and so on. As for whether he gave that speech on that day, I will have to rely on the assertions of those who heard it.

Correct. Since he had previously been a rising star in the dominant religion of his people, there's no apparent reason for him to abandon that religion and at times oppose it. So, his actions support the position that he actually believed what he was saying. Doesn't mean it was true, but it indicates that he believed it.

I think that's probably true. I'd also say that very many of the Christians testimonials are put forward by honest people describing actual experiences.

It is their interpretations of those experiences which I doubt.

Without another real benefit, that's completely circular.

It's not so much a circle as a conflation.

I'll claim that Jesus and Paul suffered on the basis of the Bible. You said the Muslim will do the same thing. How?

I believe the Muslim will make factual claims based on testimonial "evidence," and that at least some of these claims will conflict with some Christian claims.