RE: Admitting You're a Sinner
January 16, 2018 at 9:19 pm
(This post was last modified: January 16, 2018 at 9:47 pm by vulcanlogician.)
(January 16, 2018 at 10:14 am)SteveII Wrote: It is a description of someone who is well down the path of Sanctification.
Well, it may align with your Wesleyan doctrine, but the passage itself says: "This is what is meant by true repentance for sin..." so I thought it directly concerned our discussion of the value "Admitting you're a sinner." My initial argument was that this admission seemed to have little/nothing to do with an improvement in one's moral character. In fact, I argued that such a thing might be detrimental to moral progress (and I still hold this view pretty much).
What's interesting about the passage is that it draws a line of causation between the state of repentance and "the Eternal Goodness." I interpret "Goodness" to relate to morality, and see "Eternal Goodness" as something similar to a Platonic form. A Christian might interpret it as "Gawd, Gawd, Gawd," and not catch the fact that (while the Eternal Goodness is certainly meant to be related to divinity) the word "goodness" signifies a moral phenomenon. Maybe I am interpolating too much here, but that's what I got out of it. If anything might be said to endorse viewing oneself as a vile sinner, it would be that such a state leads to transcendance.
Still, I think the concept "vile sinner" is more so used as a harmful pejorative than a catalyst for transformation. The fact that "sweatin' like a whore in church" has earned status as a common colloquialism indicates a general perception that "vile sinners" ought to feel unworthy among the ranks of Christians. It seems to me that Jesus preferred the company of prostitutes and outcasts. He didn't spend too much time among the sanctimonious religious authorities except to overturn their tables and insult them. Here's a neat little exercise: next time you read the Gospels, change out any instances of "scribes and pharisees" and replace it with "modern American evangelicals" and see if the shoe fits.
Another point worth mentioning (from Theologia Germanica) is the quote: "Such men are in a state of freedom, because they have lost the fear of pain or hell, and the hope of reward or heaven..."
If this represents the expression of one who is further along the path than most, why are Christians taught to emphasize such things?(On a side note, I noticed that John Wesley made it into my quote journal a couple times, so obviously I think the guy had some good thoughts. The above wasn't meant to criticize Wesleyan doctrine so much as explore the value/non-value of "admitting you're a sinner.")
