RE: Questions for "Our Role(s) as Christians on Atheist Forums"
May 14, 2018 at 3:15 pm
(This post was last modified: May 14, 2018 at 3:22 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
Here's a question for the Christian debate thread:: Just as pantheists, according to Christians such as yourselves, are misusing the word "God" my merely mislabelling the natural universe as "God"... is the reverse also possible? i.e. Is it possible to fully know God but mistake him for and mislabel him as something else? In other words: If God is X is it possible to know X but not realize X is God? Thank you for your time.
You seem to not understand.
If God knows you will do X then that means he knows you cannot not do X. A choice between X and X is not a choice. A choice between X and not X is a choice.
I don't see how contentment has to be a free choice at all. The 'choices' we have still exist without free will. Meaning the apparent choices. I can still, behaviorally, 'choose' (or pick) between chocolate or vanilla ice cream but the point is that ultimately I have no mental freedom or way for my self to ultimately choose which flavor I pick...
Contentment may or may not be an apparent choice. But I don't see how it's actually an ultimate choice as it's ultimately determined by causes prior to one's self. (i.e. by God as if God exists then God is the uncaused cause that causes everything else).
Wait are you agreeing with me that the concept of free will is incoherent?
Exactly, free will is logically impossible therefore God himself cannot have it.
Like our 'choice' to make red and white blood cells?
(May 14, 2018 at 2:28 pm)SteveII Wrote: No, omniscience does not rule out free will. You need to articulate how God comes to know the future. IMO, it is through a concept called "middle knowledge". That means that God can, without error, predict what a person will freely choose in any given circumstance--including counterfactuals. It is not that he has seen the future. There, the concept of free will endures.
You seem to not understand.
If God knows you will do X then that means he knows you cannot not do X. A choice between X and X is not a choice. A choice between X and not X is a choice.
Quote:You cannot be happy without free will. Happiness is dependent on contentment. Contentment is a choice.
I don't see how contentment has to be a free choice at all. The 'choices' we have still exist without free will. Meaning the apparent choices. I can still, behaviorally, 'choose' (or pick) between chocolate or vanilla ice cream but the point is that ultimately I have no mental freedom or way for my self to ultimately choose which flavor I pick...
Contentment may or may not be an apparent choice. But I don't see how it's actually an ultimate choice as it's ultimately determined by causes prior to one's self. (i.e. by God as if God exists then God is the uncaused cause that causes everything else).
Quote:It is free will or not. There are no versions of freedom of choice--the concept is incoherent. Omnipotence does not mean can do things that are not logically possible.
Wait are you agreeing with me that the concept of free will is incoherent?
Exactly, free will is logically impossible therefore God himself cannot have it.
Quote:He gave us a nature that is free to choose.
Like our 'choice' to make red and white blood cells?
Quote:It is an ability that God created us with because it seems thinking, rational beings capable of choice, morality, and a real relationship between creator and creature seems to be the pinnacle of anything anyone could ever create--including God. No free will, none of these things.That makes no sense to me. All those things still exist without free will. The very fact that God has a nature that he did not determine that determines our natures that we do not determine that determines every so-called 'free' action we take just shows that our actions are not freely determined.
