What is your problem with Islam? Think about it

[WinterHold]

Yes. That's true. Taking non-believers as allies is a disaster, they rarely take Muslims seriously, and frankly they use the weaknesses of Islamic populations in a very obvious ways. If you want historical examples I can list them to you; but the last of them was what the British Empire did to its Muslim allies after WW1, which led to the nightmare of Israel.

The examples are many. Trump and his raids on Arab oil money is another. Taking non-believers as allies ends up with a knife in the back and a nuclear missile aimed to your head, and evil dictators from your own kin taking support from non-believers to shoot you down and rob your cash.

The examples are also many: Assad attacks Muslim children with chemo but get Russia to cover for him, the Sauds butchering their people but get American support -and their crown prince gets to meet the queen of England-, and so on.

Oh well so they are allies with Muslims but "wrong" kind of Muslims - fundies. But if you want examples there is a Muslim country  like Bosnia where they are sort of liberal Muslims who are allies with Christians that live around and it's not a disaster.

But of course there is a question are fundie bloodthirsty Muslims more representative of Quranic Islam than liberal Muslims? You say that fundies are "butchering their people" but in many places Quran commands that same thing, like corporal punishment is promoted in the Quran. Sura 5:38 says, "As to the thief, male or female, cut off his or her hands."
Or Sura 24:2-4 says, "The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication are to be flogged with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case."

The problem is; I quoted the verses from the Quran that advocate the treating of non-Muslims with just and righteousness:

Sura 60, The Quran:
( 7 )   Perhaps Allah will put, between you and those to whom you have been enemies among them, affection. And Allah is competent, and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.
( 8 )   Allah does not forbid you from those who do not fight you because of religion and do not expel you from your homes - from being righteous toward them and acting justly toward them. Indeed, Allah loves those who act justly.

And I've been quoting this verse for months now -or even years-. If you don't fight me, I have no problem with you as a Muslim.
The Muslims who attack you without reason are crazy psychos, but still it's an insult to put me and the terrorist in the same shoes.
As for cutting the hand of the thieve; yes; we Muslims believe in the cutting of the hand -without prison-, but you non-Muslims believe in this hell for the thieve:




As for adultery, think about all the bastard children born without fathers, all the single-mothers, and that it is actually "flogging" not "stoning" like the Jewish law.

Yeah, only if disbelievers accept Allah because sura 4:91 says, "You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization."
It's very paranoid toward unbelievers sura 4:101, which says, "For the Unbelievers are unto you open enemies ... The unbelievers wish ... to assault you in a single rush."

How could a "disbeliever" accepts Allah? if they accept God already; then they are believers or people of the book.

+ 4:91 with its all context is down below:

Sura 4, The Quran:
( 88 )   What is [the matter] with you [that you are] two groups concerning the hypocrites, while Allah has made them fall back [into error and disbelief] for what they earned. Do you wish to guide those whom Allah has sent astray? And he whom Allah sends astray - never will you find for him a way [of guidance].
( 89 )   They wish you would disbelieve as they disbelieved so you would be alike. So do not take from among them allies until they emigrate for the cause of Allah. But if they turn away, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them and take not from among them any ally or helper.
( 90 )   Except for those who take refuge with a people between yourselves and whom is a treaty or those who come to you, their hearts strained at [the prospect of] fighting you or fighting their own people. And if Allah had willed, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So if they remove themselves from you and do not fight you and offer you peace, then Allah has not made for you a cause [for fighting] against them.
( 91 )   You will find others who wish to obtain security from you and [to] obtain security from their people. Every time they are returned to [the influence of] disbelief, they fall back into it. So if they do not withdraw from you or offer you peace or restrain their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you overtake them. And those - We have made for you against them a clear authorization.

? I don't understand what you mean to be honest; the verse is speaking about "hypocrites" and "two faces", or in other words what secular people call "traitors"; and these are non-believers. They claim belief with Muslims; but claim disbelief with others.

As for verse 102 of the same Sura (not 101); again cherry picking is seen because the context is speaking -yet again- about a battle with the Heathens:

Sura 4, The Quran:
( 102 )   And when you are among them and lead them in prayer, let a group of them stand [in prayer] with you and let them carry their arms. And when they have prostrated, let them be [in position] behind you and have the other group come forward which has not [yet] prayed and let them pray with you, taking precaution and carrying their arms. Those who disbelieve wish that you would neglect your weapons and your baggage so they could come down upon you in one [single] attack. But there is no blame upon you, if you are troubled by rain or are ill, for putting down your arms, but take precaution. Indeed, Allah has prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
( 103 )   And when you have completed the prayer, remember Allah standing, sitting, or [lying] on your sides. But when you become secure, re-establish [regular] prayer. Indeed, prayer has been decreed upon the believers a decree of specified times.
( 104 )   And do not weaken in pursuit of the enemy. If you should be suffering - so are they suffering as you are suffering, but you expect from Allah that which they expect not. And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

? So you actually suggest, that Muslim soldiers leave their weapons behind during prayer like it is pictured in Indiana Jones?
You know; the image of the "careful western soldier compared to the stinky Muslim soldier; one speaks with flowers and the other speaks like alalaloaoo khh".

It doesn't seem that Quran is telling Muslims to stop because in many places it tell them to kill, kill, kill

Sura 9:36 says, "Fight the pagans";
sura, 33:61 says, "Wherever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy";
sura 9:5 says, "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever you find them and seize them."
sura 4:89, "They but wish you would reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they .... But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them."

Do you really expect me to buy what you say, without supplying the context behind your claims?
But if you didn't; I will:

Sura 9:36 says, "Fight the pagans";

?Weren't there a war already between the two sides?

sura, 33:61 says, "Wherever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy";

? again you cherry pick? allow me to quote:

Sura 33, The Quran:
( 60 )   If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is disease and those who spread rumors in al-Madinah do not cease, We will surely incite you against them; then they will not remain your neighbors therein except for a little.
( 61 )   Accursed wherever they are found, [being] seized and massacred completely.

It is speaking about a consequence of their actions. A result.
It's me saying : "if you don't watch your weight; you'll get diabetes and die". I don't see that as a threat !

Or what about this Sura that tells Muslims not to take Jews and Christians as friends

5:51 "Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors of each other."

"Friends" as a translation is beyond me, the original Arabic word is "ولي", and it's translated to ally.
Friend is "صديق".

I mean are you being good Quran abiding Muslims and not having Jews and Christians as your friends? Not only does this passage display a contempt for Jews and Christians but an appalling ignorance of historical events. All too often Jews and Christians have barely been able to stomach one another's presence.

But the verse does not even include the word "friend" !

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You have two main sources that Muslims use to draw the religion:
1-The Quran
2- The Hadith books

The Quran is believed to be the word of God that was written when Prophet Mohammed was alive, while the Hadiths are written about 250 after the death of the prophet. They are documents of rumors about his era.

Sharia law is derived from the Hadith. Lots of negative laws exist only in the Hadith (like stoning and killing homosexuals).
Eliminate the Hadith; and the religion becomes very different from the negative picture sharia law presents.

Stop with your lies already, both the quran and hadiths were written a long time after the passing of Mo.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran

? Wikipedia says that you're the liar.

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Oh I see I woke up the dead. LOL

Regarding verse 5:51 do you know possible alternate meanings to "Awliya"?

For the record; the Arabic word for "Friend" (صديق) is used literally in:

Sura 24, The Quran:

( 61 )   There is not upon the blind [any] constraint nor upon the lame constraint nor upon the ill constraint nor upon yourselves when you eat from your [own] houses or the houses of your fathers or the houses of your mothers or the houses of your brothers or the houses of your sisters or the houses of your father's brothers or the houses of your father's sisters or the houses of your mother's brothers or the houses of your mother's sisters or [from houses] whose keys you possess or [from the house] of your friend. There is no blame upon you whether you eat together or separately. But when you enter houses, give greetings of peace upon each other - a greeting from Allah, blessed and good. Thus does Allah make clear to you the verses [of ordinance] that you may understand.

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Fake Messiah,

I explained why I believe Awliya is best translated as authorities pertaining to the religion and holy books and teachings of the Prophets (revealed to them).

(see other thread with edge cases)

Mainly it means don't take them as authorities of what is found in the Torah and Gospels, as some of them are authorities over others, and a verse clarifies later, they have made religion into a game and fun.

No; a ally has nothing to do with the shiite religion also.