(January 11, 2023 at 1:39 pm)tjdisc Wrote: I think the whole "belief" thing is overstated. I don't think it's so much if we believe He exists (demons do and that doesn't do so much for them). It's whether you want to be like Him or not. Loving, kind, merciful, long-suffering etc. All the fruits of the Spirit. We can't be truly - that's why He died. To provide a way to pull us out of the depraved karmic debt/hole we can find ourselves in. To give us a path to be like Him that we weren't capable of before. I'm not going to say you can't be perfect. Jesus said He came for the sick, not the healthy. If you can return love for hate and exemplify all the fruits of the Spirit, then you HAVE chosen Him in spirit and in truth, whether you believe He exists or not.
Well said.
I have often pointed out that "belief" in English has two meanings.
1) Belief as assent to a proposition, as in "I believe the world is round." And
2) Belief as commitment to a principle, as in "I believe in equal rights for women." Obviously equal rights for women don't currently exist, but it is something we commit to.
Many of the most exemplary Christians in history, as far as I know, held to the second kind of belief.
Notably, Socrates says exactly the same thing in the Phaedrus. When asked if he thinks the Greek myths really happened, he answers that he leaves stuff like that to the experts. What interests him is what he can learn about himself from what the myths say.
