(January 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm)jared Wrote: Does it irritates you when religious people say Atheism is a religion?It irritates me as much as it would likely irritate a christian to be told that he or she isn't a "true christian" for whatever reason.
(January 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm)jared Wrote: This may sound like blind (read dumb) faith, but I actually think that coming to the conclusion that a supernatural world exists is a very rational and logic activity.There's neither rational nor evidence-based reasons to hold such beliefs so yeah, I think you're deluding yourself if you think that holding such beliefs is either logical or rational.
(January 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm)jared Wrote: In my understanding of a naturalist/atheist world view, something can only be trusted/known/believed in/etc... if it can be scientifically proven (scientific method/repeatable tests and outcomes). I'm wondering if this claim for the basis of knowledge (that I hope I got right) can be scientifically proven. I take that back. I have reasoned that the claim is logically invalid and therefore does not hold up under the weight of its own requirements.What on earth are you talking about?
It seems like I'm looking at half of two disparate ideas but not one whole idea. The scientific method is the only method available to test and prove results as a method of discovering and knowing about reality.
Nothing else that we do can make the same claim.
(January 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm)jared Wrote: Now, I'm a big fan of the scientific method, and I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water here. My point is that it takes a certain level of faith in its most essential premise to adhere to a naturalistic world view. And that is why I think some Christians might claim that atheism is a religion.I think we can throw out irrational beliefs out quite easily without disrupting the human progress of knowledge and discovery.
But no, many atheists, or at least I myself rely on science precisely because it doesn't require belief of any kind. I can prove or disprove a scientific hypothosis given the proper research, tools, and knowledge.
That is not possible with religious faith or even 'faith' of any similar kind. The very act requires that you accept something without knowing whether or not it's true. Science is the process of discovering truth, not deciding it beforehand.
(January 26, 2012 at 11:39 pm)jared Wrote: Both Christians and atheists start with an incomplete set of data, make inferences, search for answers that are intellectually credible and existentially satisfying, and draw conclusions. I surmise that that my world view is superior, and so does everyone else. That is why we chose our particular world view. Not because we are certain, but because the hypothesis we came to fits that data better than anything else.
False equivelency fallacy.
Plus, atheists don't necessarily always use science as I do. Many do, I suspect, but atheists are an incredibnly diverse bunch who only happen to agree that religion is a waste of time and energy. That agreement is just about the only thing we all have in common.
That said, I'm going to assume you mean "atheists who are scientifically literate and are fans" in the above. With that assumption, you're committing the false equivelency fallacy by stating that the two are equivelent in how they go about finding the truth. Science and religion are as different as night and day in this respect.
If today you can take a thing like evolution and make it a crime to teach in the public schools, tomorrow you can make it a crime to teach it in the private schools and next year you can make it a crime to teach it to the hustings or in the church. At the next session you may ban books and the newspapers...
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan
Ignorance and fanaticism are ever busy and need feeding. Always feeding and gloating for more. Today it is the public school teachers; tomorrow the private. The next day the preachers and the lecturers, the magazines, the books, the newspapers. After a while, Your Honor, it is the setting of man against man and creed against creed until with flying banners and beating drums we are marching backward to the glorious ages of the sixteenth centry when bigots lighted fagots to burn the men who dared to bring any intelligence and enlightenment and culture to the human mind. ~Clarence Darrow, at the Scopes Monkey Trial, 1925
Politics is supposed to be the second-oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first. ~Ronald Reagan