RE: The burden of proof relating to conciousness, free choice and rationality
February 25, 2012 at 7:17 am
(This post was last modified: February 25, 2012 at 7:41 am by marx_2012.)
[quote='Rhythm' pid='244450' dateline='1330149286']
The basis of rationality isn't a choice that someone makes. Reason is not quite so arbitrary. Have you ever tried to be completely unreasonable about something by the way? It's difficult to do, not an easy choice to make or maintain (if it's even possible).
If one were to base their conclusions on nothing more than a choice they made, that would not be "rational thought". If our thoughts were predetermined they would still be our thoughts. Perhaps that's exactly what we're dealing with here on this rock. The illusion of choice with no viable alternative. Strong arguments can be made. Why would atheists have a burden of proof for this sort of thing? Didn't see any gods in there.
[/quote]
While rational thought isnt free choice in its entirity you cant deny that free choice is needed for rational thought to exist.
[quote='padraic' pid='244475' dateline='1330154449']
[quote]
"As an atheist" I need explain exactly nothing; I make no claims. Pretty sure the existence of consciousness has been pretty well defined by science,at least for my needs. However, the precise nature of conciousness has not been explained as far as I'm concerned. A monist, I have yet to see any credible evidence that consciousness exits other as a function of part of the living.Again, I make no claims so need explain nothing.
[/quote]
If you make no claims who is it that is choosing to write this post and how can he do that if there is no free choice?
Conciousness may be hard to explain philosophically but free choice is not.
[quote](Marx_2012) But here is where I see the problem, that if there are absolute scientific laws that govern the universe, ----[/quote]
[quote] I'm unaware of science having made any such claims. [/quote]
But this is the endgame for the ideology of science in general. To find the constant in the randomness.
[quote] PS: I'm dying to know what you mean by 'spiritually scientific' and can't wait to see your empirical evidence.
[/quote]
Check out the research of Dr Emoto on water crystals or the work being done using aura imaging on the electromagnetic fields aroung life and conciousness.
I wont go into the rest cos I wana stay on topic.
The basis of rationality isn't a choice that someone makes. Reason is not quite so arbitrary. Have you ever tried to be completely unreasonable about something by the way? It's difficult to do, not an easy choice to make or maintain (if it's even possible).
If one were to base their conclusions on nothing more than a choice they made, that would not be "rational thought". If our thoughts were predetermined they would still be our thoughts. Perhaps that's exactly what we're dealing with here on this rock. The illusion of choice with no viable alternative. Strong arguments can be made. Why would atheists have a burden of proof for this sort of thing? Didn't see any gods in there.
[/quote]
While rational thought isnt free choice in its entirity you cant deny that free choice is needed for rational thought to exist.
[quote='padraic' pid='244475' dateline='1330154449']
[quote]
"As an atheist" I need explain exactly nothing; I make no claims. Pretty sure the existence of consciousness has been pretty well defined by science,at least for my needs. However, the precise nature of conciousness has not been explained as far as I'm concerned. A monist, I have yet to see any credible evidence that consciousness exits other as a function of part of the living.Again, I make no claims so need explain nothing.
[/quote]
If you make no claims who is it that is choosing to write this post and how can he do that if there is no free choice?
Conciousness may be hard to explain philosophically but free choice is not.
[quote](Marx_2012) But here is where I see the problem, that if there are absolute scientific laws that govern the universe, ----[/quote]
[quote] I'm unaware of science having made any such claims. [/quote]
But this is the endgame for the ideology of science in general. To find the constant in the randomness.
[quote] PS: I'm dying to know what you mean by 'spiritually scientific' and can't wait to see your empirical evidence.
[/quote]
Check out the research of Dr Emoto on water crystals or the work being done using aura imaging on the electromagnetic fields aroung life and conciousness.
I wont go into the rest cos I wana stay on topic.
