RE: Non-existence
August 11, 2009 at 3:27 pm
(This post was last modified: August 11, 2009 at 3:33 pm by Kyuuketsuki.)
(August 11, 2009 at 2:34 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: No. The solipsist acknowledges the existence of conscious experience, and nothing more. He does not make the leap of faith that the conscious experience represents an independent reality outside of the conscious experience in the mind itself.
It doesn't matter what the solipsist believes ... in order for either a virtual or dreamed universe to exist it must involve further layers of complexity therefore it is entirely reasonable to say that the assumption of a physical (real) universe is a more realistic proposition and therefore any claim otherwise is the EXTRAORDINARY claim and requires EXTRAORDINARY supporting evidence i.e. the two views ARE NOT equal!
(August 11, 2009 at 3:25 pm)Jon Paul Wrote:(August 11, 2009 at 3:15 pm)Kyuuketsuki Wrote: A mind which must support ITSELF in addition to hosting the entire universal scenario ... it is therefore MORE COMPLEX than the base assumption of a physical universe!The mind does not contain conscious experience of the entire universal scenario. Anything that falls outside the conscious experience of the mind does not exist, for the solipsist, since all that exists is the conscious experience of the mind.
If I don't consider your argument valid, why would I consider the stupidity of the solipsist argument in any way relevant?
(August 11, 2009 at 3:25 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: The sense data of the mind, even if it was much larger than it is, will always be lessser and less complex than an actually existing reality, since sense data contains and records less than actually exists according to realism.
No, it wont for reasons already given.
(August 11, 2009 at 3:25 pm)Jon Paul Wrote: You say a mind which supports itself, which is again metaontology and metaphysics, that speculates as to the ontogenesis of the mind, and why the mind is. But the only object of ontology is that which is, and the mind is. Just like the natural world exists, and there is no reason why it exists which is is not itself a part of the reality of the natural world (for the naturalist), there is no reason why the mind exists, which is not itself a part of the reality that the mind exists (for the solipsist) since that is all he affirms in existence at all.
No it is not meta-ontology and metaphysics ... it is straight forward logic and reason.
There is no reason why our minds exist? Yes there is ... they evolved as a function of the spare "computing" power of our brains and became evolutionarily useful. Although I accept there is a lot to be learned about that and how it happened there certainly is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever to suggest that mind exist independently of body, brain or physical supporting infrastructure.
Kyu
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Where those who are hacked off with the stupidity of irrational belief can vent their feelings!
Come over to the dark side, we have cookies!
Kyuuketsuki, AngryAtheism Owner & Administrator