(July 6, 2012 at 3:31 pm)CliveStaples Wrote:(July 6, 2012 at 3:14 pm)ktulu Wrote: Perhaps if I quote a few definitions... question begging:
wiki :
"Begging the question (Latin petitio principii, "assuming the initial point") is a type of logical fallacy in which a proposition is made that uses its own premise as proof of the proposition. In other words, it is a statement that refers to its own assertion to prove the assertion. Such arguments are essentially of the form "a is true because a is true" though rarely is such an argument stated as such. Often the premise 'a' is only one of many premises that go into proving that 'a' is true as a conclusion"
Something can have a beginning without a cause outside of the environment needed for such conditions. If you imply that the environment is the cause, then why god? why not quantum foam?
If your argument is question begging it will be sound within it's constrains. But it will not be valid.
But where's the question begging? The KCA doesn't say "Everything begins to exist except for this one thing." It says:
1) Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2) The universe began to exist
3) Therefore, the universe had a cause.
It doesn't assume that the universe had a cause. Since that's the only conclusion here, it can't possibly be begging the question.
I think we can all agree that the argument is sound, but then drawing the conclusion that the God of Christianity exists because the universe had a cause is illogical, unless someone has already proved that God can create universes. Time to move on?