Does the Bible Contradict Itself?

[spockrates]

Please tell me where he says this.


I think you mean to say salvation is by grace, through faith, instead of by faith, through grace. Don't you?

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith —and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

(Ephesians 2)

But speaking of grace, what exactly would you say it is?


Yes, but is scripture clear that the good things we say, think and do have nothing to do with getting us to heaven? If so, please explain why? For example, why do you believe Ephesians 2 teaches our thoughts, words and deeds are useless to save us from hell?

Would you believe that many thoughtful
Catholics (who do not believe as you do about good works) tell me the same? You and they both seek the truth from scripture. You and they both trust the Holy Spirit to reveal the truth. Yet you and they disagree about what the Holy Spirit has revealed as the truth about salvation! How can that be? I'd say either you, or they, or both are deceived. So doesn't this mean that trusting the Bible and Holy Spirit does not guarantee freedom from deception?

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Differences regarding salvation.

Ha ha ha. Take notes boys, because this guy hasn't been here long and he already knows how to do your job better than you do.
Please continue, I have no desire to interrupt this extraordinary turn of events.

Feel free to interrupt at any time, my friend! The challenge for the atheist is to show that these ambiguities are reason enough for the Christian to change her mind and stop believing. At least, that's where the discussion thread has led.

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Hell, they may even be made white and delightsome. Mormons are also saved, correct?

Some Catholics and Protestants would say incorrect. Faith (or trust) is only as good as the object in which it is placed, they might say, and Mormons put their faith in a different Jesus. The Jesus of Mormonism is the spirit brother of Lucifer rather than the God who spoke and created the universe.

I've invited Mormon missionaries into my home and have an aunt who is a Latter Day Saint. I've had good conversations with them and find their beliefs fascinating.

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My mother and brother are Mormons. They believe that JC is the redeemer. They include works in addition to just believing which in my opinion is much better than your 'believe' and all will be right creed. Don't get me wrong; in my opinion Mormonism is the same as adding shit to an existing pile of shit...you just get a bigger pile of shit, but you are wrong regarding their works denying them a personal relationship with your god-boy.

Having known many Mormon's I will declare as a generalization, despite the annoying door to door religious salesmen (20 year old elders), that Mormons are mostly a live and let live sort. Their invovlement in Prop 8 politics in California a few years ago is evidence against my claim, but most are polite in public and will not preach. Sometimes I think their mission work isn't so much to convert others as it is to give the devout a first hand look that the rest of the world isn't like them. Given the choice to have a Mormon neighbor or a conventional Christian (as you put it) neighbor, I would much prefer a Mormon neighbor.

Mormonism is a cult, but your views regarding their 'relationship' with your Jesus is false.

Perhaps it is more correct to say the Jesus in whom Protestants believe is different than the Jesus in whom Latter Day Saints believe? If the Jesus in whom someone believes is different from the real Jesus, then the person doesn't have a relationship with the real Jesus, I've heard Protestants say. I suppose the question to ask these Protestants is this: Is it possible to have a relationship with someone one misunderstands? I think, perhaps it is--that is, it is if the misunderstood one exists!



I also have a relative who is Mormon and have spoken to several Mormon missionaries in my home. My experience is that they're kind people, though they tend to trust their personal experiences and perhaps feelings more than logic, from what I've observed.

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Sigh, Mormons do believe in the bible, jesus christ......

Those things that you don't think are differences are articles of faith, and very important to those that believe in them -and very different from those that don't. You don't agree with them, no surprise there, but that doesn't have anything to do with whether or not they qualify as differences (case in point, your disagreement pretty much nails them down as difference). Ask a Catholic whether or not you have to hold those things as articles of faith to be in the graces of the lord almighty, hmn? Perhaps you are all being "deceived" about biblical infallibility and the Mormons have it right? What an common song and dance, disavow anything that doesn't support your particular interpretation of christ and christianity as you confidently declare who is this or is not that in absolute ignorance of fact.

The Mormons with whom I've spoken say the Bible is accurate insofar as it is correctly transmitted. The inaccuricies are due to issues of transmission rather than translation. They say the Book of Mormon was directly transmitted to their prophet Joseph Smith, so it is more accurate. The difficulty I see with this is that there have been many revisions of the Book of Mormon since it was originally written down. Not sure if these revisions are serious enough to be a real problem for Mormonism.