(October 4, 2009 at 9:05 am)Retorth Wrote:(October 4, 2009 at 8:53 am)fr0d0 Wrote: You're assuming 'God' and the Christian faith, which you at the same time deny. How can the conditions of a faith you deny have any bearing on you?
It does not have any bearing on me but is it wrong to learn about it anyway?
That in Christian terms you are a sinner has no bearing on your life outside Christian terms.
(October 4, 2009 at 9:05 am)Retorth Wrote:fr0d0 Wrote:You cannot conflate the two and criticise the position of belief from non belief. Either you criticise from the belief or you evaluate your own position from that position.
If that is the case, you too cannot criticize the position of non belief since you are in the position of belief, agreeable?
I don't think you get it. It's the mixing of the two concepts together as if they were the same thing to be where the confusion arises, that is what I am saying you are doing. eg: I am a sinner (Christian definition) so I can't have Free will (Secular definition).
(October 4, 2009 at 9:05 am)Retorth Wrote:fr0d0 Wrote:Where does God ever say our choice to disobey him will be to our benefit? To be indecisive he would have to have said both. He never does. You do. You define free choice independently from God.
Of course he never says it is beneficial to disobey him. He always says it is to your benefit to obey him and love him and believe in him. That, he is not indecisive on. Clearly he is confident in his stand that we must believe in him. It is his condemnation of non-believers while giving free will that leads me to the conclusion that he is indecisive. Perhaps it is not indecisiveness but a sadistic nature of his. I could be wrong.
So god to you is either indecisive or sadistic. This is not the definition of the Christian God so you must be talking about another god you made up.
Either that or your conclusion is flawed.
What is your opinion of my heroin example above? In that scenario are you still free to choose even though you know very well one choice will be very bad for you? You didn't address it.
(October 4, 2009 at 9:05 am)Retorth Wrote:fr0d0 Wrote:Second point ignored as it's completely irrelevant.
LOL of course its "irrelevant" isn't it.
Well I never said such a thing. I have never asked you to prove a negative. I have no idea why you said it.