Collaboration with theists?

[Edwardo Piet]

Oh absolutely, yes. I don't mean that atheists being dogmatic has anything to do with atheism proper. There is certainly something else in the equation that makes fanatic atheists fanatical. And I am obliged to point out those fanatics and frown at them, not at all because of their lack of belief, only because of there attempt to control others.

Well if it's nothing to do with their atheism... then what exactly is the OP about? Atheists only ever behave dogmatically for reasons aside from their atheism, which itself contains nothing more than absence of belief in God... - therefore, atheists can only behave dogmatically for reasons than theists, deists, etc, can also behave dogmatically for. Atheists only behave dogmatically for other reasons... which means... why attack atheism? Theists on the other hand... can also have dogmatism based on their particular religion(s)... whereas atheists by definition cannot.

So why attack atheism when theism has extra possibilities for being dogmatic? Like being dogmatic about their religious beliefs? Whereas atheists can't because they don't have a religion.

I wonder what point could be made about how some religious fanatics are also personally responsible, or self-motivated into their extremism as well.

Well it's simply that the religious have extra beliefs to motivate them that the non-religious don't. Atheists have beliefs that motivate them, except they (by definition) don't have a belief in God(s) to motivate them. Theists, like atheists have beliefs to motivate them, but this also includes belief in God(s) too... and very often, also the beliefs that go along with it. (Also theists have specifically a personal God(s) to motivate them... if their god is impersonal, then that's deism, not theism).

they also I admit that religion has a slightly higher penchant for dogmatism itself though...

Well theism just has extra possibilities of dogmatism to atheism... and that's religious dogmatism. Atheism can have all other kinds of dogmatism, but not dogmatism that relates to God because atheists don't believe in God.

I just think the statement "Religion is whats wrong with the world" is a little fanatical.

Well that would be a very over the top absolutism statement. There are many problems in the world and, IMO, religion is one of them. I'd say religion is quite possibly the biggest problem. But that obviouslt doesn't make it the only problem!! There are many problems with the world...

And, curiously, I think fanaticism is whats wrong with the world.

I agree. And religion is at it's worst when it's fanatical. But also... all this political correctness, this moderateness of protecting beliefs no matter how delusional they are... that's where fanaticism can thrive. Moderates give cover for fundamentalists by tolerating bullshit.

What's wrong with "intolerance" if it's the form of harmless conversation? Questioning is how we learn... things not to be open to debate because it "offends people", is one of the things that holds things back IMO.

So atheists who espouse the "religion is whats wrong with the world" (as exampled by the silly article, not that you are) are themselves whats really wrong with the world (in their fanatics, not their disbelief).

I know of no such atheist group like the one described in that article. That article basically exaggerates everything and twists things. It's ridiculous hyperbole is not an impressive critique. It has made a strawman of atheism - atheism is simply lack of belief in God. If amazingly there really is a group of atheists where they are all intolerant bigots, then that's purely coincidental anyway. It's got nothing to do with atheism itself.


When the article claims that atheists somehow want to silence the opinions of all non-atheists... 1. That is a complete strawman of atheism. It's got absolutely nothing to do with atheism. Atheism is merely absence of belief in God... nothing more, nothing less... 2. I, myself, have never really experienced what is written in that article. You'll get the odd complete asshole atheist... - as with theists - but in my personal experience: This so-called wave of "New atheism" is mostly a wave of agnostic atheists in my experience... (as that is the kind of atheism argued for in, for instance - The God Delusion) who at their most militant they want to go around debating people... and that is the opposite of shoving things down people's throats... if the debating is done politely. Debating is not demanding.

I actually do think that religion is the main problem with the world... probably... but it is, indeed - certainly not the only problem.

Thanks EvF.

You're welcome.

See the subtle brainwashing there? Christian extremism has to equal murder no less. Not what Christianity is about at all. To be true, that statement would have to read: "for Christians to be considered extremist, they just have to say out loud that they are Christians."

No... because Christians aren't considered extremists simply from being Christians.

EvF