Toaster strudel alliance takes on drugs, atheists and liberalism

[jstrodel]

Darkstar I will respond to your criticisms with this. I think you missed the point of what I am saying. I am not arguing that all atheists commit some specific act of lowest common denominator morality, such as murder, I am arguing that atheist political philosophy is self defeating.


4. The ground of atheism varies person to person with no common non-coincidental agreement
5. If the ground of ethics varies person to person with no common non-coincidental agreement, ethical statements are incommensurable
6. Ethical statements are incommensurable for atheists (MP 6,7)
7. If ethical statements are incommensurable, they cannot have a ground higher than them-self
8. Ethical statements between atheists cannot have a higher ground than them-self (MP 6,7)
9. There must be a ground for the will to rule and ethical statements between atheists cannot have a higher ground then themselves
10. If ethical statements are incommensurable, there is no way to know whether they are true or not
11. There is no way to know whether atheist ethical statements are true or not (MP 5 entails 10a, 10)
12. If there is no way to know whether a statement is true or not and the statement cannot have a higher ground than itself, it lacks authority
13. Atheist ethical statements lack authority (MP (10 & 7,12)

14. [Where governments are organized by atheists or politics is conducted by atheists ], if ethical statements do not have authority, people do not have to obey them
15. Where governments are organized by atheists or politics is conducted by atheists, people do not have to obey it (MP 14,13)

Please respond in a syllogism or some other form of logic, that will be much more interesting.

The crux of the argument is that atheist ethics are highly subjective and individual, that atheist approaches to ethics become incommensurable, meaning they cannot be compared, that when the condition of incommensurable is reached, there is no way to know whether atheist ethical beliefs are true or not and if there is no way to know if they are true, people do not have to obey them. There can be no culture that people are bound ethically to accept from atheism, and no law that can proceed, other than the law of the force of one will, as in the Soviet Union.

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I believe that's Penn Jillette, and there's a thread referencing those comments here someplace. (But don't quote me on that.)

You are arguing that desire is a suitable ground for morality? Do you have any evidence for that? That is an extremely huge claim that goes contrary to what virtually every society in history has taught, that people are selfish, that they need to be governed, that power is necessary to restrain evil. Even the Communists had a Puritanical side.