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My reasoning in rejecting eternal torture/hell...
#48
RE: My reasoning in rejecting eternal torture/hell...
(March 28, 2013 at 11:14 pm)Tex Wrote: @ missluckie26

First off, I love the Holy Grail. My favorite of their movies. I watched it just last Monday. Anyway, on to the real stuff.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent."

Its the last conclusion you got wrong. God is entirely able, and if he weren't, he would not be omnipotent, yes, but will is a different matter. I can will to go to the football game, and I can go. I can will that I make a sammich, and I make one. However, sometimes we can only will one of two options. Pretend you have to paint a wall in your house. Pretend you like both blue and green, but not teal. You can only paint it one color. It is impossible that the whole wall (one color) be both blue and green, so instead you decide on one. Equally, if I'm fishing with my philosophy professor and my mother (both cannot swim), and both go overboard simultaneously with time only to save one, I might want both saved, but only one will happen (your supposed to save your mother, btw).

In the case with God, he does not want evil, but simultaneously he wants creatures with free will. He can either have robots and no evil or people with evil (although there will be no evil further down the timeline). He is choosing people. Currently, there is evil, mainly because we cause it. God doesn't prevent other evils because we're total butt holes to him (and death is not non-existence).

Hi thereBig Grin Sorry it took me a bit to reply, Mystic Knight yours is coming soon too! Just been busy. And tired, I'm on chemo treatments..

So, if you look back to before "the fall", Adam and Eve had free will. They chose to disobey.
I disagree with your assertion that "if your whole god theory is right" then there will not be evil down the line. Hell will exist, and that's evil because an infinite punishment for a finite transgression is incoherently ridiculous not to mention unjust.

I would consider god to be evil, unless you contest the existence of hell or all of the old testament/Revelations. God himself says he does not change, and he killed innocents in the bible. That evil will never go away, he's the one who made it that way. But I guess it's not evil because your definition of good is god. I can't even make up a horrible scenario of malevolence that god hasn't done. So let's say he ripped babies out of their mothers' wombs (he did), and that's good because god says so. Anything is good if god says it is.

What's more, he has to be the source of both good and evil if he's the one who is everything and made everything; otherwise there's a law of good/evil that he didn't make but must abide by in which case, who made that system?
I didn't say god doesn't prevent other evils because we're total butt holes (that made me laugh!). I assert that if he wasn't a total butt hole himself, he wouldn't have even created satan and the system of the "fall" and punishment or sin, knowing that he can know what was to happen before it happened. Or he could've just let everyone eat of the tree of life instead of shoving us out into the thorny, pestilence-infested wilderness for succumbing to his fucked up pre-made version of justice.

So he's able, and not willing, which makes him malevolent.
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!

Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.

Dead wrong.  The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.

Quote:Some people deserve hell.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]
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Messages In This Thread
RE: My reasoning in rejecting eternal torture/hell... - by Mystical - March 31, 2013 at 4:18 pm

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