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If god were real...
RE: If god were real...
(April 3, 2013 at 9:35 am)Tex Wrote: God is responsible for evil if a parent is responsible for all acts of their child within a reasonable scope of knowledge.
They are, they're also responsible for a great many things that they may not have knowledge of.

Quote: All couples have children knowing there will be issues, therefore parents are responsible to the extent of their knowledge. They may not be responsible for murder, but they'd be responsible for for most of the little evils. All those evils fall on the parents.
They are responsible for a murder - if it falls within the extent of their knowledge. Their portion of the responsibility is not as great as the part owned by the kid who draws the knife - as it were- but they are still responsible.

Quote:That is not how morality works. If the kid is bad because the parents don't discipline, then it's more their fault, but if the kid gets into a fight at school, you shouldn't put mom and dad on trial for battery.

Well, agreed, that's how it pans out legally. But I have to ask, are you really prepared to demonstrate "how morality works" - because if you aren't - that's a pretty hollow statement. We don't put mom and dad on trial for battery - they didn't do any beating. We do take them to civil court with the receipts for our child's stitches in hand.

Truth be told, I like these little analogies - because even if we couldn't conceive of "putting god on trial in a criminal court" (which honestly, we very easily can) he'd still be on the hook for massive reparations in a civil court. All the arguments against this amount to insisting that a god be treated in a way that is inferior to a human being, that it be granted exceptions, lesser standards. Not that we aren't willing to do that, children, the mentally challenged, the demonstrably insane etc.
(I could make a defense for god on any of those counts- granted)

I just can't help it, I have to jot down a rough draft. Lets call it, "sympathy for god".

Firstly, I'd like to start by pointing out that god was isolated in eternity - potentially for eternity - at least an incomprehensible amount of time. We understand the effects of isolation on ourselves after a paltry few weeks or months - the effects of an isolation so complete and vast are possibly beyond measure. When we consider the account of the actions of god - we are presented with an appalling resume (more on this later), one that is difficult to square with the notion of a mentally competent person who simply "commits crime". We have found human beings to be incompetent for far-far less - with demonstrable regularity. Now, a clever prosecutor might point to moments of lucidity - such as creation of all that is - but the defense would merely like to remind the jury that moments of surprising lucidity are entirely common amongst the insane.

Secondly, there was no other show in town. God - being isolated - had no one to crib from. It would be no stretch to compare gods understanding of the principles required to convict him as that of a child. Not just any child, but an immeasurably powerful child, capable of inflicting incredible harm. In this light the resume above becomes much more substantial, much easier to comprehend. We have no reason to expect this god to have a more developed understanding of these principles - and judging only from what is espoused by god in his commandments along the periphery of those principles the case is quite thoroughly made.

Thirdly, it is unclear to me, and I hope to establish the same to you, that god is capable of understanding it's own nature, abilities, or the consequences of its actions in part or in full. In short, that god is severely mentally challenged. What concept of "events" or "cause" or "consequence" would a timeless being possess? What frame of reference could it use to determine the meaning of these things? Has god, or could god, ever explain it's abilities? Clearly, god has been "doing things" but whether or not god understood what it was doing - well, I don't see anything that would suggest this. Now some might point to gods oft touted omniscience - the claims made by others, and potentially by god itself that it possesses this attribute. Can we really trust this claim? Grandiose claims of ones abilities aren't exactly surprising from the insane - or from the minds of children. On the other hand, the claims of others about this god are difficult to substantiate.

Finally, I'd like to point out that I do not intend to absolve god of it;s culpability in these things entirely. I'd simply like to establish that criminal proceedings would not be appropriate. How we might contain god in a psychiatric ward is a mystery - but that's where I would argue that god belongs. As to civil proceedings, well, as far as I'm aware - god has no assets. It is claimed that gods primary residence is a palace in the sky, but seeing as how this palace is immaterial it's a mystery as to how a court would appropriate it as damages. One might point to the churches of the world - but since our laws don't have a "sins of the father" statute - I'm afraid that this won't work. In this case, there would seem to be no justice, just us.

Kind of a tragic figure really, blundering along trying to figure shit out for the very first time - possibly with good intentions- lashing out in frustration - creating everything, destroying it because it wasn't satisfied, the creatures created don't work as intended.....apparently just "lookin for love"........really, really heartwrenching stuff, in a twisted sort of way. I'd go so far as to call god a hair shy of a decent anti-hero.
I am the Infantry. I am my country’s strength in war, her deterrent in peace. I am the heart of the fight… wherever, whenever. I carry America’s faith and honor against her enemies. I am the Queen of Battle. I am what my country expects me to be, the best trained Soldier in the world. In the race for victory, I am swift, determined, and courageous, armed with a fierce will to win. Never will I fail my country’s trust. Always I fight on…through the foe, to the objective, to triumph overall. If necessary, I will fight to my death. By my steadfast courage, I have won more than 200 years of freedom. I yield not to weakness, to hunger, to cowardice, to fatigue, to superior odds, For I am mentally tough, physically strong, and morally straight. I forsake not, my country, my mission, my comrades, my sacred duty. I am relentless. I am always there, now and forever. I AM THE INFANTRY! FOLLOW ME!
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Messages In This Thread
If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 1:26 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 1:30 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - March 28, 2013 at 1:47 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Neo-Scholastic - March 28, 2013 at 8:00 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 28, 2013 at 8:12 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 1:40 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 1:48 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 28, 2013 at 2:00 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - March 28, 2013 at 2:27 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 2:00 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 2:28 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 2:43 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 2:52 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 2:56 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 3:05 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 3:11 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 3:14 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 2:39 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 28, 2013 at 4:36 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 4:56 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 28, 2013 at 5:19 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 28, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: If god were real... - by John V - March 28, 2013 at 6:20 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 2:53 am
RE: If god were real... - by Sagasa - March 29, 2013 at 3:06 am
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 3:29 am
RE: If god were real... - by Cato - March 29, 2013 at 3:16 am
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 11:59 am
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 1:57 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 2:04 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 29, 2013 at 1:29 pm
RE: If god were real... - by downbeatplumb - March 29, 2013 at 2:07 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 2:26 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 28, 2013 at 5:04 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 28, 2013 at 2:41 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 28, 2013 at 2:53 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Faith No More - March 28, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Simon Moon - March 28, 2013 at 3:04 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Joel - March 28, 2013 at 3:16 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 5:07 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 28, 2013 at 5:50 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - March 29, 2013 at 2:30 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 5:22 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2013 at 5:31 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 28, 2013 at 5:32 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 28, 2013 at 5:56 pm
RE: If god were real... - by frankiej - March 28, 2013 at 6:34 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2013 at 6:28 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 28, 2013 at 6:41 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 28, 2013 at 6:59 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Joel - March 28, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 29, 2013 at 2:49 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 2:58 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 29, 2013 at 3:51 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 3:57 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - March 29, 2013 at 4:03 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Faith No More - March 29, 2013 at 4:19 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 6:17 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - March 29, 2013 at 3:20 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 3:31 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Kayenneh - March 29, 2013 at 4:06 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 29, 2013 at 5:40 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 29, 2013 at 6:11 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - March 29, 2013 at 6:20 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 6:39 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 29, 2013 at 6:16 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 29, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 29, 2013 at 7:02 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 29, 2013 at 7:13 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 29, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 29, 2013 at 7:25 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 30, 2013 at 3:28 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 30, 2013 at 3:44 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 30, 2013 at 8:48 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Ryantology - March 30, 2013 at 9:12 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 1, 2013 at 9:09 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - April 1, 2013 at 9:12 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 2, 2013 at 3:26 am
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - April 2, 2013 at 5:19 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - April 1, 2013 at 9:18 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 2, 2013 at 3:43 am
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - April 2, 2013 at 4:42 am
RE: If god were real... - by Tonus - April 2, 2013 at 6:38 am
RE: If god were real... - by Simon Moon - April 1, 2013 at 9:22 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 2, 2013 at 3:52 am
RE: If god were real... - by Simon Moon - April 2, 2013 at 2:22 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 2, 2013 at 4:32 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - April 2, 2013 at 5:52 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - April 2, 2013 at 7:52 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - April 2, 2013 at 9:14 pm
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - April 2, 2013 at 11:07 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2013 at 3:39 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 30, 2013 at 5:17 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tonus - March 30, 2013 at 5:58 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Godschild - March 30, 2013 at 8:09 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2013 at 8:13 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Fruity - March 30, 2013 at 8:45 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2013 at 8:52 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Joel - March 30, 2013 at 9:17 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 30, 2013 at 10:51 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 30, 2013 at 10:53 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Joel - March 30, 2013 at 10:52 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 30, 2013 at 11:12 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 30, 2013 at 11:14 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 31, 2013 at 12:43 am
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - March 31, 2013 at 12:49 am
RE: If god were real... - by CleanShavenJesus - April 1, 2013 at 9:00 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - March 30, 2013 at 11:22 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - March 31, 2013 at 10:05 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 1, 2013 at 10:28 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Fruity - April 2, 2013 at 1:56 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2013 at 3:31 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2013 at 3:51 am
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - April 2, 2013 at 12:42 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Foxaèr - April 2, 2013 at 2:02 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tonus - April 3, 2013 at 8:37 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2013 at 2:06 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2013 at 6:55 pm
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 2, 2013 at 9:34 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Baalzebutt - April 2, 2013 at 9:55 pm
RE: If god were real... - by Tex - April 3, 2013 at 9:35 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2013 at 9:41 am
RE: If god were real... - by archangle - April 3, 2013 at 10:57 am
RE: If god were real... - by The Grand Nudger - April 3, 2013 at 11:08 am

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