Good debate. Thoroughly enjoyable read.
Just a thought on the morality issue.
Atheism is amoral has been stated several times on this thread. Actually this is something I agree with - in the same sense that mathematics is amoral, or a person's height is a gauge to the morality of their behaviour and so on.
This does not mean, however, that atheists can be moral "despite" being atheist. The word despite is wrong. People can be moral whether or not they are atheist would be a better description just as they can be moral whether they are short or tall.
So if atheism does not confer morality - what does? Does religion?
I am yet to see any study that shows that theists are more moral than eithers atheists or theists following different pathways.
I do not see that there are any immoral acts that an atheist would perform that a theist would not. On the other hand there are many immoral acts that religious people do/have done throughout history that an atheist would not do. Suicide bombing is a good example, as is circumcision (particularly female), buring of witches, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition......
In summary then - the case for religion confering morality looks very weak indeed.
Religion does generally document a version of morality - varying slightly between religions. As these come from our quite distant past they do not appear to offer much of a guide in today's reality. The 10 commandments is notable for quite how badly it fairs. Rape and child-molesting are not even mentioned whilst covetting is - and I cannot imagine that makes anyone's top ten these days.
One must conclude, therefore that morality is not related to belief except where such belief might corrupt morality.
So where does it come from?
My supposition is that it is an innate part of the human condition brought to us through evolution and natural selection. Those that cooperated, worked together and respected one another, survived.
Just a thought on the morality issue.
Atheism is amoral has been stated several times on this thread. Actually this is something I agree with - in the same sense that mathematics is amoral, or a person's height is a gauge to the morality of their behaviour and so on.
This does not mean, however, that atheists can be moral "despite" being atheist. The word despite is wrong. People can be moral whether or not they are atheist would be a better description just as they can be moral whether they are short or tall.
So if atheism does not confer morality - what does? Does religion?
I am yet to see any study that shows that theists are more moral than eithers atheists or theists following different pathways.
I do not see that there are any immoral acts that an atheist would perform that a theist would not. On the other hand there are many immoral acts that religious people do/have done throughout history that an atheist would not do. Suicide bombing is a good example, as is circumcision (particularly female), buring of witches, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition......
In summary then - the case for religion confering morality looks very weak indeed.
Religion does generally document a version of morality - varying slightly between religions. As these come from our quite distant past they do not appear to offer much of a guide in today's reality. The 10 commandments is notable for quite how badly it fairs. Rape and child-molesting are not even mentioned whilst covetting is - and I cannot imagine that makes anyone's top ten these days.
One must conclude, therefore that morality is not related to belief except where such belief might corrupt morality.
So where does it come from?
My supposition is that it is an innate part of the human condition brought to us through evolution and natural selection. Those that cooperated, worked together and respected one another, survived.
