(June 11, 2014 at 2:00 pm)Esquilax Wrote:(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote:
Tell you what, GC, I'll make you a deal: you lay out a series of specific, detailed and unambiguous conditions for "True Christendom" that have no basis in personal interpretation, your opinion, or exclusively your denomination's beliefs, and I'll see how many ex-believers I can encourage to share their previous beliefs.
That's only fair, really: knowing the criteria ahead of time stops you from moving the goalposts later, and will demonstrate early whether or not you're trying to bootstrap "godschild's personal beliefs" into the title of "True Christian," and cutting out your personal preferences and interpretations only makes sense. After all, you said believer, not specifically of your particular church. I'd assume, after all, that you hold christians of other stripes in higher regard, religiously speaking, than an atheist? At least, you recognize that they are believers, even if they're doing it wrong?
Let's see how this conversation goes when we add a little accountability onto the would-be interrogator, shall we?
The answer is no, I know that it's peer pressure that causes these former believers not to reveal what they did, their afraid of being embarrassed. Deals are not part of a discussion and I wasn't looking to put anyone down, I wanted to see if these people actually tried. You see they should do this because they have their own courage, not because you convinced them to. Actually I would be offended by your proposal to convince me to speak up, who do you believe you are that you have control or authority over these who say they once believed. They are their own persons and can decide for themselves. If they do refuse it will give Christians grounds to doubt their sincerity, I've shared my pre-Christian past without a care as what other Christians thought, why since I did is it such a big deal for the former believers. You talk about moving the goal post, if I were to present a set of conditions then the former believers could move their goal post to meet the conditions, so once again No.
GC
God loves those who believe and those who do not and the same goes for me, you have no choice in this matter. That puts the matter of total free will to rest.