(June 11, 2014 at 12:28 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 12:19 am)Eye of God Wrote: Read the OP stupid. The question WAS ASKED OF ME, I am a theist. You should think before you let your fingers move.

Bolded the important part for you.

(June 11, 2014 at 12:19 am)Eye of God Wrote: That may be true you uncouth baboon, but the questions was still asked, which means the invitation was given, and YOU are a fool who needs to pay far more attention to what he writes.

They're asking you questions to watch your apologist acrobatics for entertainment, and to see what kind of ridiculousness you'll come up with
Besides, it's clear from your reply that you didn't actually read the OP, and are doing exactly what the OP asked you not to do instead of presenting an argument.

Dance, monkey, dance.

Backpeddle all you want - the invitation was given to me and you are the one who looks like a fool who needs to practice his reading comprehension.

If you don't want to read a what a theist has to say, perhaps you shouldn't put yourself in places where they state their beleifs. It seems rather obvious that the OP was going to have theists giving their point of view. Unless you're thick? Are you a little slow on the uptake?

From what I can tell, it matters not if I'm an apologist or not, I was invited to this conversation and you were not. Doesn't mean you're not welcome, but it does mean that you are being a real ass by not allowing me to answer the question poised to ME.

(June 11, 2014 at 12:39 am)Eye of God Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 12:28 am)Rampant.A.I. Wrote: Bolded the important part for you.



They're asking you questions to watch your apologist acrobatics for entertainment, and to see what kind of ridiculousness you'll come up with
Besides, it's clear from your reply that you didn't actually read the OP, and are doing exactly what the OP asked you not to do instead of presenting an argument.

Dance, monkey, dance.

Backpeddle all you want - the invitation was given to me and you are the one who looks like a fool who needs to practice his reading comprehension.

If you don't want to read a what a theist has to say, perhaps you shouldn't put yourself in places where they state their beleifs. It seems rather obvious that the OP was going to have theists giving their point of view. Unless you're thick? Are you a little slow on the uptake?

From what I can tell, it matters not if I'm an apologist or not, I was invited to this conversation and you were not. Doesn't mean you're not welcome, but it does mean that you are being a real ass by not allowing me to answer the question poised to ME.

The only one backpedaling is you.

With no chain on the bike. Rolling downhill. Toward a brick wall.



Present an argument, support it with evidence.



Not your usual "the bible because the bible and bible."

(June 11, 2014 at 12:23 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 7:28 pm)Lek Wrote: Nothing mysterious about it. You seek with him with sincerity, not looking for just what pleases yourself, but for who he really is.

Been there, done that. LOL - it always comes down to "you were doing it wrong". How the holy fuck would you know? Why should we believe you, take your word for it?

Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

GC

(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 12:23 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Been there, done that. LOL - it always comes down to "you were doing it wrong". How the holy fuck would you know? Why should we believe you, take your word for it?

Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

GC

I'm sorry, but this is such a transparent attempt to dig up personal dirt to No True Scotsman a past believer.

The majority of theists on this board won't reveal any personal details, some won't even tell you what their denomination is, and then you have Cafeteria Christians like GC who identify as a southern baptist, but add on a caveat that they don't believe all of their own doctrine.

If there were any interest in an actual examination of belief, the theist would be open with their experiences, and the history of the belief they were more than likely born and raised into.

Instead, they seem to prefer to hide their actual beliefs so they can post hoc justify any incongruity in their professed doctrine, and maintain self illusion of moral superiority and self righteousness.

And the loudest mouthed theists on this board, the ones screaming from the rooftops that secular morality is a lie, and God is the only source of morality, won't even reveal their own past behavior they lowered their opinion of humanity on the whole.

And yet those same theists are the first ones to jump into a support thread, mine it for ammunition, and use it against people who are open and honest about their personal life, beliefs and experiences.

It's a crock of garbage.

(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 12:23 am)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Been there, done that. LOL - it always comes down to "you were doing it wrong". How the holy fuck would you know? Why should we believe you, take your word for it?

Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

No. I'm fucking tired of being told by self-righteous asshats that I was doing it wrong, whilst moving the goalposts all the way.

I'm not afraid of "being scrutinized by scriptures" - as if that were even a possibility, and I'll say any damn thing I please here, thank you very much. I don't need to provide you or anyone else evidence of that particular statement, because I couldn't give a flying fritatta whether you believe me or not. Do or don't, it's no concern of mine.

(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

GC

Tell you what, GC, I'll make you a deal: you lay out a series of specific, detailed and unambiguous conditions for "True Christendom" that have no basis in personal interpretation, your opinion, or exclusively your denomination's beliefs, and I'll see how many ex-believers I can encourage to share their previous beliefs.

That's only fair, really: knowing the criteria ahead of time stops you from moving the goalposts later, and will demonstrate early whether or not you're trying to bootstrap "godschild's personal beliefs" into the title of "True Christian," and cutting out your personal preferences and interpretations only makes sense. After all, you said believer, not specifically of your particular church. I'd assume, after all, that you hold christians of other stripes in higher regard, religiously speaking, than an atheist? At least, you recognize that they are believers, even if they're doing it wrong?

Let's see how this conversation goes when we add a little accountability onto the would-be interrogator, shall we?

(June 11, 2014 at 2:00 pm)Esquilax Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

GC

Tell you what, GC, I'll make you a deal: you lay out a series of specific, detailed and unambiguous conditions for "True Christendom" that have no basis in personal interpretation, your opinion, or exclusively your denomination's beliefs, and I'll see how many ex-believers I can encourage to share their previous beliefs.

That's only fair, really: knowing the criteria ahead of time stops you from moving the goalposts later, and will demonstrate early whether or not you're trying to bootstrap "godschild's personal beliefs" into the title of "True Christian," and cutting out your personal preferences and interpretations only makes sense. After all, you said believer, not specifically of your particular church. I'd assume, after all, that you hold christians of other stripes in higher regard, religiously speaking, than an atheist? At least, you recognize that they are believers, even if they're doing it wrong?

Let's see how this conversation goes when we add a little accountability onto the would-be interrogator, shall we?

I'd take that survey, pony up theists, I'm itching to shove your fallacies right up your asses.

(June 10, 2014 at 5:41 pm)Lek Wrote: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You must experience God in order to believe in him. If you're closed to him, you won't recognize his influence on the world around you and you won't see how he has changed the lives of those who believe in him. Like I've said many times before, you can't discover the supernatural by purely natural processes. The signs are there in the structure of the universe and in living creatures, but you're blind to them, because you've limited your options in interpreting them. You don't know if the universe was created or always existed, but you're unwilling to accept anything but a scientific explanation. So far you haven't found one, but you keep searching. It could be God, but you won't open up to the possibility.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You must experience Sagan in order to believe in him. If you're closed to him, you won't recognize his influence on the world around you and you won't see how he has changed the lives of those who believe in him. Like I've said many times before, you can't discover the natural by purely irrational processes. The signs are there in the structure of the universe and in living creatures, but you're blind to them, because you've limited your options to ignoring them. You don't know if the universe was created or always existed, but you're unwilling to accept not knowing. So far you have made one up, have stopped searching. It could be any process, but you won't open up to the possibility.

---

(June 11, 2014 at 12:39 am)Eye of God Wrote: Backpeddle all you want - the invitation was given to me and you are the one who looks like a fool who needs to practice his reading comprehension.

If you don't want to read a what a theist has to say, perhaps you shouldn't put yourself in places where they state their beleifs. It seems rather obvious that the OP was going to have theists giving their point of view. Unless you're thick? Are you a little slow on the uptake?

From what I can tell, it matters not if I'm an apologist or not, I was invited to this conversation and you were not. Doesn't mean you're not welcome, but it does mean that you are being a real ass by not allowing me to answer the question poised to ME.

*Backpedal

(June 11, 2014 at 1:44 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote:

(June 11, 2014 at 1:15 pm)Godschild Wrote: Then stop trying to tell us you believed and show us what you were doing while you were a believer, details please. Many here have claimed to be former believers yet give no evidence to prove their statements, why? Are you afraid to be scrutinized by the very scriptures you once believed.

No. I'm fucking tired of being told by self-righteous asshats that I was doing it wrong, whilst moving the goalposts all the way.

I'm not afraid of "being scrutinized by scriptures" - as if that were even a possibility, and I'll say any damn thing I please here, thank you very much. I don't need to provide you or anyone else evidence of that particular statement, because I couldn't give a flying fritatta whether you believe me or not. Do or don't, it's no concern of mine.

Then stop asking for proof or evidence from Christians, this thing works for both sides of the debate. I think you are embarrassed to show us what you use to do, we're not so why should you, or are you bending to peer pressure, this is for all the former believers.

GC

(June 10, 2014 at 7:00 pm)Lek Wrote:

(June 10, 2014 at 6:47 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: That doesn't answer the question - I know damn well why I don't believe any more. Why are you right, and they wrong? Why should I believe the bullshit you're selling, as opposed to the bullshit that they're selling?

You can't both be right.

My opinion is that if you believe in God and don't experience him, then you won't remain a believer for long. Sorry I disagree with all those other believers you talked to, but that's how I feel.

How you feel is not evidence.