(July 1, 2014 at 7:44 pm)Beccs Wrote: [hide](July 1, 2014 at 7:34 pm)blackout94 Wrote: you cannot if they die in the meantime. You can refuse if you have valid reasons, but there aren't any valid reasons to refuse to give surgery to someone who's life is in eminent danger, or are there? If it is an emergency you cannot refuse. An abortion is not generally an emergency. Why are you comparing the incomparable? Do you think forcing all doctors to give abortions would work? Think better.
You are right, you've successfully changed my mind. This is something that rarely happens
I'm not comparing the incomparable. I'm questioning why a doctor should have the right to refuse treatment selectively to patients. Where does the level of objection end.
And again, it depends on the condition of the patient.
A less drastic version of the example: If I refuse to treat a person because of their political leanings/their gender/or because I don't like the look of them they can always go to another surgeon, right?
Don't try to tell me to think clearly in an attempt to belittle me. It won't work. And, frankly, if we start down that trail, you'll lose.
You are committing the false dilemma fallacy. You are comparing two different situations. Refusing to treat a patient because of their political affiliations, gender or appearance is discriminatory and now allowed by law for obvious reasons (everybody has the right to healthcare independently of race, financial condition, etc). Refusing to perform an abortion because you genuinely believe you are committing murder or something alike is completely different considering it requires terminating an unborn fetus' existence. Some doctors take the Right to Live of their ethics code so far that they don't want to perform abortions. This is a respectable decision and it is not discriminatory, you aren't discriminating pregnant women because they are females or anything, you are merely refusing because you don't want to kill the unborn baby. Why should we be against this?
Like I said, refusing treatment is not allowed if it contains discrimination, refusing abortion is not discrimination since you refuse abortion to ALL pregnant woman (objection of conscience requires you maintain a constant coherent behavior, you cannot obviously just refuse abortion for 50% women and perform on the other 50%) because you believe to be committing murder
The case you mentioned would be yours to win from the beginning, but if it was my case of refusing to perform an abortion because my ethics/religion/morals/principles are against it, do you think you would get the court to sentence me to perform the abortion? The answer is no
I'd like to ask you, in a society ruled by the law and human rights, what sense does it make to force your citizens to go against their most basic linear principles? This is against human dignity
How do you propose solving this according to your opinion? Forcing doctors to give abortions? I'm 100% sure most of them would rather be jailed.
Again I'm not saying objection of conscience is infinite, but it is allowed in a democratic state as it should be, refusing abortion won't harm the pregnant woman since she can require another doctor who is ok with such procedure to do it, therefore no one's right or liberty will get hurt.
Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you