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Belief and Knowledge
RE: Belief and Knowledge
(November 1, 2014 at 10:39 am)Rhythm Wrote:
(November 1, 2014 at 8:24 am)Heywood Wrote: What the evidence suggests to us is that our reality isn't all there is.....that perhaps effects in our reality can be caused outside of it.
I'm not really sure that this suggestion is all that strong. That we do not know or cannot ascertain such a cause doesn;t to me, suggest that said cause must be "elsewhere". Was rain being caused "elsewhere" until the moment we hammered out the evapo-transpirative cycle? I think not. The evidence suggests that there is something that we do not know, not that something outside of reality is having an effect on something inside of reality - or even that these terms can be sensibly used when they are arranged thusly. That is a strangely specific sort of claim to flow from what is, boiled down to it's simplest - an invocation of the unknown unknown.

Poppycock.....this isn't a question of not knowing. This isn't some gap in our understanding.

If you wanted to make different statement about what the evidence suggest it is this. Not all effects have causes. I'm not going to swallow that pill....I'm not going to throw out causality from my world view when there is a viable coherent alternative.
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Messages In This Thread
Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 8:19 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chad32 - October 29, 2014 at 8:26 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 8:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chad32 - October 29, 2014 at 8:57 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LostLocke - October 29, 2014 at 8:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 9:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - October 30, 2014 at 11:55 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LostLocke - October 30, 2014 at 7:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 1:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 29, 2014 at 9:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 29, 2014 at 10:25 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 29, 2014 at 11:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Surgenator - October 30, 2014 at 12:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 2:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 2:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 3:15 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 3:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 9:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - October 30, 2014 at 9:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 31, 2014 at 1:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 31, 2014 at 3:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:21 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - November 3, 2014 at 11:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - November 3, 2014 at 12:16 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 12:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - November 3, 2014 at 1:30 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - November 3, 2014 at 1:43 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 3, 2014 at 7:34 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 3, 2014 at 9:44 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - November 3, 2014 at 10:11 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Foxaèr - November 3, 2014 at 10:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 4, 2014 at 12:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 4, 2014 at 11:19 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 7, 2014 at 7:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 7, 2014 at 9:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 7, 2014 at 9:56 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 7, 2014 at 11:29 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - November 7, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 7:18 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 11:53 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 1:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 31, 2014 at 10:55 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Lao Shizi - October 29, 2014 at 10:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Surgenator - October 29, 2014 at 11:35 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 30, 2014 at 2:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 3:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 8:37 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:02 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 12:30 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:33 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 1:54 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 2:21 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 4:36 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 4:58 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by genkaus - October 30, 2014 at 5:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jackalope - October 30, 2014 at 7:57 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 31, 2014 at 9:53 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:12 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Jenny A - October 30, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 12:51 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:56 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by coldwx - October 30, 2014 at 1:05 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 1:16 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by coldwx - October 30, 2014 at 1:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Faith No More - October 30, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 2:52 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - October 30, 2014 at 9:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 2:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 5:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Chas - October 30, 2014 at 5:27 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 31, 2014 at 1:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LastPoet - October 30, 2014 at 8:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FreeTony - October 30, 2014 at 9:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by fr0d0 - October 30, 2014 at 9:48 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - October 30, 2014 at 10:33 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Lao Shizi - October 30, 2014 at 10:24 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 30, 2014 at 11:43 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 2:29 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Simon Moon - October 30, 2014 at 2:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 30, 2014 at 3:07 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cato - October 30, 2014 at 3:12 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FreeTony - October 30, 2014 at 12:41 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 30, 2014 at 12:46 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mister Agenda - October 30, 2014 at 12:45 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 30, 2014 at 3:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2014 at 5:47 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2014 at 10:06 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 1:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - October 31, 2014 at 9:09 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 9:14 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Minimalist - October 31, 2014 at 1:27 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:13 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:57 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Cyberman - October 31, 2014 at 10:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - October 31, 2014 at 10:34 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by LastPoet - October 31, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Esquilax - October 31, 2014 at 9:00 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:37 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:41 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 10:58 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:09 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:17 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:20 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Angrboda - October 31, 2014 at 11:33 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:36 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 11:40 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - October 31, 2014 at 11:45 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 11:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 11:08 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mothonis - October 31, 2014 at 1:59 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:24 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - October 31, 2014 at 10:37 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - October 31, 2014 at 10:46 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Mudhammam - November 1, 2014 at 3:04 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 1, 2014 at 8:07 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 8:24 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by downbeatplumb - November 1, 2014 at 10:27 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 10:39 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 10:54 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 10:59 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Heywood - November 1, 2014 at 11:05 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2014 at 11:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 1, 2014 at 12:03 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Neo-Scholastic - November 3, 2014 at 12:01 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 3, 2014 at 7:40 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2014 at 1:04 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Fidel_Castronaut - November 7, 2014 at 10:54 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - November 7, 2014 at 11:30 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by comet - November 7, 2014 at 1:11 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 7, 2014 at 6:50 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by comet - November 9, 2014 at 8:10 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:34 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 8:38 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:42 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 8:47 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 9:06 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by abaris - November 9, 2014 at 9:16 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 11:59 am
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by Whateverist - November 9, 2014 at 12:49 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by FatAndFaithless - November 7, 2014 at 1:20 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 4:59 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2014 at 7:38 pm
RE: Belief and Knowledge - by bennyboy - November 9, 2014 at 8:24 pm

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