Does Free Will actually exist? Is there a way to tell?

[Godscreated]

[quote='Godschild' pid='857007' dateline='1422332267']
Just because a moral system dictates the way one should act doesn't mean one has to responded to it. If one is commanded to be a suicide bomber, commanding one first of all says the one has a choice, the choice can be accepted or rejected.

Can it, I think you've assumed something that is precisely the point of contention.

I've assumed nothing, by necessity a commandment for/to someone means we have a choice, if we did not then there would be no need for said commandment/s.

God commands through the scriptures one should not practice homosexual acts, that doesn't mean there are no homosexuals, to the contrary, a commandment wouldn't be necessary if there were none. One has the right to accept this command or reject it.

Does one?

Of coarse, why give one if there was no need to make a decision, a commandment necessitates a choice.

The law of this country and the law in scriptures say do not murder, one has the choice to or not murder,

Oh?

Oh, what?

people are not destined to be murders, if they were why would there be a command not to murder.

Because the people who wrote your fairy tale didn't understand much about the dirt under their feet, let alone the human mind?

Those people were some of the most successful farmers then and now, Europeans depend on and desire the good crops they grow. Now what about the laws of all the civilized world that have murder laws written, are they stupid in your opinion also.

If we knew people were predestined to murder or not there would be no need for the command. Commandments and law says free will exists.

Wow........that was fucking idiotic.

Seems the idiotic statements are coming from you, you're babbling on with no real intelligent though going on, losing your logic are you.

I could command you not to engage the warpdrive on your Honda......but that doesn't mean that your Honda actually has a warp drive.

Murder exists and people have a choice whether they commit murder or not. So since you come up with such a stupid reply I'm assuming your intellectual thought process warped out.

He sees all things and that by no stretch of the imagination means predestination.

Actually...that's exactly what it means...unless, of course...god can be wrong, that some of the things god can see aren't actually real or will never happen. What do you think?

I think you've lost any sense you had. God is never wrong. Please explain how you have arrived at such a conclusion, so far you've had nothing but baseless statements.

I can see if certain people stay on the path they are according to the scriptures they will go to hell,

Are you god? Can you see all things? Or, are you just guessing.....

No guessing here, I can read what God says and from that easily make a intelligent determination. I never said I can see all things, nor the future, I said, I could see what would happen to certain people if they stayed on the path they are traveling. Misdirection is a game suited for those who understand it.

does that mean I have predestined them to go to hell.

Nope...but do you want me to compare you to god...and draw similarities between you...because I can do that all day long. You clearly are "god", or, at least you clearly are the god that you describe.

Then by your statement I'm correct in saying I can not predestine anything and by saying this you admit I can predetermine where one is bound according to what the scriptures say, thank you. Actually God calls for me to be more like Him in the ways that are possible for man, and if this is the conclusion you've drawn, then good. However if it's anything else you are failing miserably.

if that's my desire then how much more is it God's desire,

Yeah.........my point exactly.

You've already stated that I can't predestine anyone, so what exactly is your point? You should go to the dictionary and look up the word desire, you seem to have a misunderstanding of it's meaning.

because He loves everyone.

Because "god" is a proxy for your thoughts and desires, but also, all of the things you might feel a hint of shame for if you owned up to as being all your own.

No, that would eliminate free will and I believe I've established we have free will, the only reason you have taken the opposite stance is because most Christians believe in free will. If you're looking for a Christian to agree with you argue with a Calvinist.

GC

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It doesn't stop there though. An omnipotent omniscient being designing the universe knows the exact outcome of any design he comes up with.

God would have known the exact state of the universe and the human beings in it for all of eternity. So he wanted the Fall to happen. He wanted to have to drown almost the entire human race. And he wanted to have to sacrifice himself to himself, because he had designed humans in a way that they would sin.

A persons mother goes out for a drive, she was never taught how to drive, that person desires for the mother to be killed, not just killed but mangled beyond recognition, then that person desires to kill himself because she decided to go for a drive, this what you're trying to say.

No matter how much Theists try and get around this, normally by just ignoring it, they cannot.

You see me ignoring anything, I jumped in and stated what should be obvious to any intelligent person.

Any omnipotent being that punishes its own designs for their faults is just ridiculous, free will or not.

God did not design man in his present condition, man chose to be in this condition. Man lived in a sinless state until he chose differently.

GC