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General argument for Islam.
RE: General argument for Islam.
(April 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm)jesus_wept Wrote: It's a shame somebody didn't tell the writers of all the embarrassing (for Muslims) hadiths that the verses were meant to be parables really.

That depends on what hadiths you look for and take from, if you look towards Sunnis sure, they take things more literally, but the Shia hadiths do give meaning as parables or metaphysical realities.

(April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm)paulpablo Wrote: Which verses talk about the mustafeen and say they might be forgiven for shirk?
4:98. It's translated as weak, but it doesn't mean the person is a weak person, it rather means they lack the power for reaching the truth.  In some places, mustaaf means oppressed, but here it means those who don't have the power to teach the truth.

(April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm)paulpablo Wrote:  say they might be forgiven for shirk?

Again, shirk is defined as knowingly associating others with God.

There is other verses that prove not all polytheists are Mushrikeen or kaffers. Do you want to discuss them or is what I shown sufficient?
Reply



Messages In This Thread
General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 7:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 7:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 9:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:54 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 8:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 8:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 3, 2015 at 10:17 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - March 26, 2015 at 7:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - March 26, 2015 at 7:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 8:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 8:56 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 26, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeadChannel - March 26, 2015 at 8:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 3:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 12:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 26, 2015 at 9:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 26, 2015 at 10:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 26, 2015 at 10:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - March 27, 2015 at 4:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 3:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 5:54 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 6:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 28, 2015 at 6:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 1:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:56 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 29, 2015 at 2:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 2:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 4:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by downbeatplumb - March 27, 2015 at 5:04 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 5:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - March 27, 2015 at 8:02 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Lucanus - March 27, 2015 at 8:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - March 27, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - March 27, 2015 at 2:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 27, 2015 at 5:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - March 27, 2015 at 6:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 27, 2015 at 6:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 7:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by JuliaL - March 27, 2015 at 9:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Joods - March 27, 2015 at 11:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 27, 2015 at 7:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Alex K - March 27, 2015 at 8:18 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - March 27, 2015 at 11:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - March 28, 2015 at 1:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 8:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 8:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 9:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 12:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 12:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Desert Diva - March 28, 2015 at 1:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by WinterHold - March 28, 2015 at 3:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - March 28, 2015 at 1:33 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - March 29, 2015 at 6:07 am
q - by Cheerful Charlie - March 29, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Wyrd of Gawd - March 29, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - March 29, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 4:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 7:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 2, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 7:19 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 7:39 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 2, 2015 at 4:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 2, 2015 at 4:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 2, 2015 at 5:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 2, 2015 at 6:07 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 2, 2015 at 7:14 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 2:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 3, 2015 at 8:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 6:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:33 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 10:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 3, 2015 at 5:57 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 10:44 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 3, 2015 at 10:47 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:13 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:16 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:30 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:36 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:41 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by FatAndFaithless - April 3, 2015 at 11:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 11:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 12:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 3, 2015 at 12:34 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 3, 2015 at 1:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 3, 2015 at 6:21 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 9:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by DeistPaladin - April 3, 2015 at 9:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by CapnAwesome - April 3, 2015 at 10:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 3, 2015 at 11:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Minimalist - April 3, 2015 at 11:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 4:43 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 12:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:09 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 1:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 2:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 4:38 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 1:45 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 1:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 4:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:04 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:26 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 2:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 4, 2015 at 2:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 2:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by watchamadoodle - April 4, 2015 at 10:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Surgenator - April 4, 2015 at 4:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 5:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:20 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Chas - April 4, 2015 at 7:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 5:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cato - April 4, 2015 at 6:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 6:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 6:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 5, 2015 at 3:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 4, 2015 at 7:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 7:32 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:42 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 7:58 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 7:59 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:16 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 4, 2015 at 8:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 4, 2015 at 8:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 8:37 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 8:49 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 9:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 9:52 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:15 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:19 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 10:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 10:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 4, 2015 at 10:44 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 4, 2015 at 11:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by professor - April 4, 2015 at 11:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by dyresand - April 5, 2015 at 1:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:59 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 6:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 12:23 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 1:06 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by paulpablo - April 5, 2015 at 2:28 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 9:45 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 9:51 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 9:58 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 5, 2015 at 10:05 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 10:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 10:35 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:06 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 11:29 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:12 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 4:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 11:07 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 12:47 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Angrboda - April 5, 2015 at 1:08 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 1:22 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 1:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 1:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 2:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 5, 2015 at 5:01 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 5, 2015 at 2:27 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 5, 2015 at 2:36 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 2:43 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 3:25 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 3:35 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:10 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 4:13 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 5, 2015 at 4:30 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 7:50 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 5, 2015 at 8:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 5, 2015 at 10:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 4:50 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 5, 2015 at 8:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 4:57 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 5:09 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 7:01 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:14 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by jesus_wept - April 6, 2015 at 5:24 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 5:15 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:11 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 8:31 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Mudhammam - April 6, 2015 at 9:34 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:00 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 6, 2015 at 8:48 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 9:08 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 12:24 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by pocaracas - April 6, 2015 at 1:03 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by RobertE - April 6, 2015 at 9:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 11:27 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 12:05 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 1:11 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:40 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:41 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:46 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:48 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by MysticKnight - April 6, 2015 at 5:53 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brakeman - April 6, 2015 at 5:55 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by The Grand Nudger - April 6, 2015 at 5:58 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 2:22 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 7:42 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 3:37 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 8:00 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 8:10 am
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 1:31 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Brian37 - April 19, 2015 at 4:09 pm
General argument for Islam. - by Etrius - April 19, 2015 at 1:39 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 2:51 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by Cyberman - April 19, 2015 at 4:02 pm
RE: General argument for Islam. - by robvalue - April 19, 2015 at 4:08 pm

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