What IS good, and how do we determine it?

[Randy Carson]

You may recall that when the bishops did speak out against Nazism in the earliest days of the war, Hitler ordered massive bombing in retaliation, and many innocent civilians died. Consequently, the Church hierarchy realized that its opposition to the Germans would have to be conducted underground. Catholic monasteries and churches all over Europe were used for hiding the Jews and as part of an underground railroad that moved people out of harm's way. If the Pope and the Bishops had confronted Hitler from their pulpits, these havens would have been destroyed.

At the time prior to the war one third of the German people were Catholic and prior to its forced dissolution by the Vatican the Catholic Center Party was by far the single most powerful party in Germany (Pius XII ordered Monsignor Kass, the then leader to dissolve it). The Nazi party could never have come to power without the devolution of the Catholic Center Party. That is historical fact.

Also, whatever happened to not standing aside quietly when sin takes place? I had my boyfreinds bitch of a sister spraypainting "faggot" on the front of my car because her Catholic faith "requires" her to "oppose evil and sin wherever it takes root". That's why the Catholic Church is screaming like a hysterical tart holding exorcism masses in the US and Mexico trying to cast out "the gay demons" and the "sins of the death culture".

This is what is called hypocrisy. If morality is not relative, you must oppose evil as and when it appears as Newman so eloquently phrased in the Apologia.

None of which addresses the point I made about Hitler's retaliation against innocent people when a priest or bishop preached against Nazism, does it?

Why did you skip over that?

That's not what I asked. You have seen Catholicism from the three vantage points of atheism, Protestantism (you are not Protestant) and Orthodoxy (you are not Orthodox). Consequently, you have not studied Catholicism from the Catholic point of view...with an appreciation of Catholic sprituality, etc.

Only as an outsider in three admittedly hostile environments.

I can't help but wonder what your impression of Catholicism might be if you earned a degree from a solid Catholic university. Just sayin'.

I actually did apply to try and study for a masters at a Catholic university, but as "an agent of satan" (and I'm quoting one of their admission officers) I'm apparently not allowed as my presence in their "sacred halls" would be "grave scandal and temptation". The Orthodox thankfully were rather more accepting, they dislike my worldview but they were willing to allow me to learn more about theirs. I'm not bitter, I actually understand some of their reasons for doing so and the university I later got into was actually far better in standing. Although why they thought I would bring "temptation" I'm not entirely sure. Perhaps they were worried I might tempt one of their candidates for the priesthood? I've not the least idea

I take in all the evidence I have access to Randy, and while I have no qualifications in specifically Catholic theology I have done much research into many aspects of it, such as the activity of the SSPX, the FSPX and the sex abuse cases in Newfoundland and Ireland. I'm always open to new information, but I am not this ignoramous basing myself on half-knowings and patchy knowledge as you make out. If anything I've demonstrated my knowledge of Cathoic History and Theology exceeds your own.

I think it might and for good reason! I'm just a poor, amateur apologist...of no real account to anyone.  

But what I asked is if you might actually develop an APPRECIATION for Catholic theology if you had studied it from OUR side of the divide. Stockholm Syndrome and all that.  

Here I was thinking of Catholic theology. Perhaps as an atheist, you haven't actually paid much attention to that. You seem more focused on the history and sociological aspects of the Church...

Of course I'm going to, the actions of the church are supposedly dictated by and directed via  its devotion to it's spiritual mission. By their fruits ye shall know them.

As for Catholic theology....I will need to consider this. I mentioned on another thread I found replacing vainglory with charitas in Late Roman society was a very valuable contribution and shift in culture. I will try to reflect and consider anything else.