First I'd like to say, great points!
I'm not taking the bible as authoritative or completely reliable so each "narrative nugget" would need to be accessed for validity.
Some of you probably know more than I on the topic, but it is my understanding that the martyrdom of the disciple James is attested to by Josephus and Peter and John's deaths by Tertullian and Irenaeus.
It seems to me that these people really did believe what they were selling though. I'm saying that no one is willing to die for a fabrication that they are fully aware of it's untruth.
The "crazies" we see die really do believe that they are dying for their beliefs....not lies.
(September 25, 2012 at 3:45 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: On the first point, your argument is built on the assumption that the story of the disciples and apostles is completely reliable. If this were so, we we not require this argument because the very same story tells us of the resurrection. If the story were reliable historical documentation, what do we need this argument for?
I'm not taking the bible as authoritative or completely reliable so each "narrative nugget" would need to be accessed for validity.
Some of you probably know more than I on the topic, but it is my understanding that the martyrdom of the disciple James is attested to by Josephus and Peter and John's deaths by Tertullian and Irenaeus.
(September 25, 2012 at 3:45 pm)DeistPaladin Wrote: Jim Jones, David Koresh and the Hale Bopp cult (Heaven's Gate) are all grim examples of the tragedy of religious fanaticism.
It seems to me that these people really did believe what they were selling though. I'm saying that no one is willing to die for a fabrication that they are fully aware of it's untruth.
The "crazies" we see die really do believe that they are dying for their beliefs....not lies.
