When I hear Israeli supporters or Israelis use this term it gives me a lip twitch. Are they westernized? Yes. Do they have the good intent of valuing western style government? Again yes.
But I do not buy it one bit when they claim it has nothing to do with religion. It is the same social pecking order denial that you get from Christians in the United States who will call a non Christian equal, but still use the phrase "Christian nation".
Israel has a religious icon on it's flag, it is not a neutral flag, it does not represent the entire population of Israel including Arab and Muslim Israelis anymore than having a cross on the American flag would be neutral.
Most recently Netenyahu said that the "Jewish state" would be based on the Talmud. And again, how would that make anymore sense when Christians in America try to claim that America's laws are ripped out of the bible?
Now of course Israel westernized, and yes far too much of the Middle East is still behind the west in valuing pluralism to the same degree. But no Israel, saying you are not like them because your social pecking order is not fascist, is not equality, it is simply a watered down social pecking order.
The founders of the United States promised to protect freedom of religion, but the glaring lack of the word Christian, and Jesus, and bible, in the Constitution said a lot about what they did not want to be. Theocracy lite is still a theocracy. As soon as you put specific language into law favoring one group over another, you are going to cause divisions.
The only fair thing with government law is to not play favorites and only agree to protect everyone. Israels "Jewish state" claims is problematic for the same reason you have liberal Christians and conservative Christians who view "Christian nation" differently.
America is not a "Christian state", it is nation based on religious freedom, which is why you see "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion or the free exorcise thereof" and in our oath of office "No religious test".
I do not say this to Jews or supporters of Israel to say "you have to leave", but merely as advice knowing how non Christians in America still are viewed, despite our constitution, as guests at best, and or feared as the "other" because of the attitude of "I am more special than you are, and you are equal as long as you accept that".
When you think about how long it took for a Catholic to get elected President, and even longer fore Jews and Muslims to serve in our congress, I am giving you advice as to what really constitutes a secular state. There is no way to view "Jewish state" as not setting up a social pecking order. Equality is not set up that way. The only way to protect pluralism is the common law of government neutrality.
But I do not buy it one bit when they claim it has nothing to do with religion. It is the same social pecking order denial that you get from Christians in the United States who will call a non Christian equal, but still use the phrase "Christian nation".
Israel has a religious icon on it's flag, it is not a neutral flag, it does not represent the entire population of Israel including Arab and Muslim Israelis anymore than having a cross on the American flag would be neutral.
Most recently Netenyahu said that the "Jewish state" would be based on the Talmud. And again, how would that make anymore sense when Christians in America try to claim that America's laws are ripped out of the bible?
Now of course Israel westernized, and yes far too much of the Middle East is still behind the west in valuing pluralism to the same degree. But no Israel, saying you are not like them because your social pecking order is not fascist, is not equality, it is simply a watered down social pecking order.
The founders of the United States promised to protect freedom of religion, but the glaring lack of the word Christian, and Jesus, and bible, in the Constitution said a lot about what they did not want to be. Theocracy lite is still a theocracy. As soon as you put specific language into law favoring one group over another, you are going to cause divisions.
The only fair thing with government law is to not play favorites and only agree to protect everyone. Israels "Jewish state" claims is problematic for the same reason you have liberal Christians and conservative Christians who view "Christian nation" differently.
America is not a "Christian state", it is nation based on religious freedom, which is why you see "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion or the free exorcise thereof" and in our oath of office "No religious test".
I do not say this to Jews or supporters of Israel to say "you have to leave", but merely as advice knowing how non Christians in America still are viewed, despite our constitution, as guests at best, and or feared as the "other" because of the attitude of "I am more special than you are, and you are equal as long as you accept that".
When you think about how long it took for a Catholic to get elected President, and even longer fore Jews and Muslims to serve in our congress, I am giving you advice as to what really constitutes a secular state. There is no way to view "Jewish state" as not setting up a social pecking order. Equality is not set up that way. The only way to protect pluralism is the common law of government neutrality.
