missluckie26 Wrote:Hi thereSorry it took me a bit to reply, Mystic Knight yours is coming soon too! Just been busy. And tired, I'm on chemo treatments..
Get better soon!!! And don't lose hope! My dad's best friend had 3 different types of chemo for Leukemia and was ready to give up, took a final 4th try at chemo and not only was cured, but had his hair back in 6 months.
missluckie26 Wrote:So, if you look back to before "the fall", Adam and Eve had free will. They chose to disobey.
I disagree with your assertion that "if your whole god theory is right" then there will not be evil down the line. Hell will exist, and that's evil because an infinite punishment for a finite transgression is incoherently ridiculous not to mention unjust.
Actually, even though you're misunderstanding what 'evil' is, you have changed my mind. There will always be evil. I didn't think about it before, but there will be evil in hell. Outside of hell, there will be no evil.
But, the eternal existence of hell or pain is not the evil I propose. I think those in hell will do evil to each other. If hell were a place where God forced you to go because he doesn't like you, then God would be evil. That's not exactly the case. Anyone who goes to hell will walk there on their own accord.
missluckie26 Wrote:I would consider god to be evil, unless you contest the existence of hell or all of the old testament/Revelations. God himself says he does not change, and he killed innocents in the bible. That evil will never go away, he's the one who made it that way. But I guess it's not evil because your definition of good is god. I can't even make up a horrible scenario of malevolence that god hasn't done. So let's say he ripped babies out of their mothers' wombs (he did), and that's good because god says so. Anything is good if god says it is.
No one is innocent. We all fall short of what we should. However, this doesn't merit the speeding of someone's death for no reason, so the debate will be, "Is what the victim did equal to the punishment?". Each case has varying details, but all that I've looked at, someone did something pretty stupid, if not multiple things. Specifically, you mentioned the scenario of children being killed in the womb (Hosea 13). Background: the Jewish nation had a civil war, so at one point Judah and Israel were not the same place. In the civil war, Israel looks to be the bad guy, but odds are the kings after David were jerks. Anyway, the chapter starts out talking about how the people of Israel (not Judah) no longer worship the Lord. They have been spoiled and have since forgotten God. God is taking away his protection. Because Israel was in constant warfare and killing their own people, God left them to their own devices. Eventually Assyria, who was much stronger, stomped on Israel. Assyria ripped the children from the womb, and God did not protect because they did not desire of God. Assyria also wanted to go stomp on Judah, smaller and just to the south. Easy target. More dead people. Right? No. Judah did no abandon God.
Isaiah 37:36
"And the angel of the Lord went out and struck down 185,000 in the camp of the Assyrians. And when people arose early in the morning, behold, these were all dead bodies."
Basically, disease destroyed the whole army. Assyria was not justly declaring war, they were just greedy.
missluckie26 Wrote:What's more, he has to be the source of both good and evil if he's the one who is everything and made everything; otherwise there's a law of good/evil that he didn't make but must abide by in which case, who made that system?
I actually claim that evil is the lack of good in the EXACT same sense of light and darkness. Darkness doesn't enter a room. Light enters a room, and if I shut the blinds it leaves. Good and evil work the same way.
missluckie26 Wrote:I didn't say god doesn't prevent other evils because we're total butt holes (that made me laugh!). I assert that if he wasn't a total butt hole himself, he wouldn't have even created satan and the system of the "fall" and punishment or sin, knowing that he can know what was to happen before it happened. Or he could've just let everyone eat of the tree of life instead of shoving us out into the thorny, pestilence-infested wilderness for succumbing to his fucked up pre-made version of justice.
So he's able, and not willing, which makes him malevolent.
I think "butt hole" is the worst of all 3rd grade insults. It is one of my favorites. =)
I assert that God did create Satan, knowing what he would do, and God is not evil for it. He did the same with Hitler. And Stalin. And Gaddafi. And Saddam. And all people, knowing the evil they would do. This doesn't seem to bother God. So, if this it is bad to do something that leads to bad, then God is either REALLY malevolent or whatever he did was REALLY good because it out weighed the bad. Since people are in time, we can say that Hitler could have made his momma happy while she was alive and turned sour later, so he has a use. Demons, because they are outside of time, we can't use that cop out. The demons cannot change their mind, so they chose evil and they will always do evil. Lets say there is a person that never does any good ever from conception till death. Would a person be better off to never exist at all? We might think so, but those are reasons of utility. "To much trouble". The person could do all evil, but the person themselves would be just like any of us. Equally, all the demons are fundamentally good like angels.
The Lord bless you and keep you; the Lord make his face to shine upon you and be gracious to you; the Lord lift up his countenance upon you and give you peace.
