Believing Vs Claiming to Believe

[Godscreated]

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You would deny the truth no matter what, you've already done that in the past

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The example is your ditching Christianity. You may not see Christianity as truth, however I do and you are asking for my thoughts, right.

Then we are talking about opinion, not truth. If you cannot show that it is true, then why are you making objective claims pertaining to it? Showing that it’s true is what makes it true, If you show it to be so, I will not reject it. The burden of proof lies with you, my friend.

I think we should get something straight before going any further, it's not my responsibility to prove God to you, Jesus instructed for us to share what we have learned. Actually God says that once we have shared it is you who have to decide, that means you have to prove God is not true. In the end this is what it comes down to.

Scripture says you're a fool for denying this truth.

Scripture says lots of things, how can we know they are true? The Koran says Jesus was a false prophet, and that Mohammad is the true path to salvation, I don’t doubt for a second that this is at all convincing to you that you’ve committed your life to a lie, but none the less, there are billions that believe this very thing of you. I think they are mistaken, and it has nothing to do with The Koran. I think you too are mistaken, and it has nothing to do with The Bible. Perhaps you have another method to present your case that’s a bit less circular? I mean no offense. But, what you’ve done is the epitome of begging the question, and is indeed circular.

I walk down a straight path, it is those who deny truth that walk in circles. Just how is it that you believe what the Koran says, is this how you came to your decision that Christ is not real?

Paul writes that the weak will fall away, Jesus said the same thing in parables. You were in church didn't you study the scriptures and see those things, I did.

You have stated that you question God and this questioning has lead you to an affirmation of things you already believed were true.

No, I questioned God about things I did not understand, I trusted Him to reveal the truth, so I patiently waited. Why would anyone question about something they already know as true?

Socrates said: “A man does not seek that which he thinks he does not need.”
What do you think this means?

I think it means you trust what a man says over what God says. I believe you bought into the great lie that God does not exist.

If you think you already have truth, and this truth is God, it is true that you would not seek truth elsewhere. My question does not pertain to that which you think is true, but what you know to be true.

I seek truth from the source of truth, why would I seek truth about God from those who do not know Him, how is it they can give me the truth about something they know nothing about. If you're sick with an illness, do you go to a plumber to get a diagnosis.

I am seeking something different than you. I am seeking knowledge of God which you claim to already have. It can be assumed that you once did not have knowledge of God to produce the belief you now hold. You will not seek what you think you don’t need, once you think you need it, you begin to seek it. What I seek is knowledge of God. One cannot believe in something they do not first know.

Faith my friend, I told you that's were it has to begin, if you are not willing to have faith to find the truth, then I guess you are not going to find that which will set you free.

God is not like music, or colors, or taste. If God exists, He exists objectively and apart from opinion. Tell me how you know that God exists and how this can be confirmed through questioning by someone that knows nothing about God’s existence. I must first know something of God before I can form a belief around Him.

I've told you things about God and you have ignored them my labeling them as opinion, that's the right you have with God. What if you could not taste, see in color or hear, would you not believe people who explained to you that music, color or taste exists. You would never be able to experience them to find out if people were telling you the truth, yet one can experience God if one desire to. So is ignorance bliss. I'll say it again faith first.

I do not easily abandon something I truly believe .

Nobody does. But, would you agree some people believe in things that are not true?

Yes I am conversing with one.

If you find your words have no impact, consider taking a new approach. If it is truth, like 2+2 is 4, than this truth can be conveyed with the right words.

You do understand that if you reject what I have said it's not me you have rejected, right?

Of course! I have not rejected you as a person. I have rejected your testimony thus far as it is irresolvable and indistinguishable from something you think is true, and not necessarily something you can know to be true.

It's true, I know it's true, it comes by spiritual means, not emotional or scientific means. If you can not accept that then why are we even discussing this.

I am still open. I haven’t rejected anything from God, as you’ve humbly admitted that you can’t personally speak for God, otherwise you would have the answers I seek. This is a bit disappointing, but I appreciate your honesty.

You'll have to excuse me but, I can not take you as serious about being open to this, you've given me no evidence that you are, just some I said I am. I can speak about God and who He is and some of His will, but if you're looking for personal experience you will have to go directly to God.

"Faith" is the first step to knowledge of God,

Thank you again, as this is another attempt to defend a clear position. You have stated that you use “faith” as an epistemology. Now, we have something we can talk about.

I said that faith is the beginning of verified knowledge

I’m sorry, but I don’t know that this is necessarily true. Verified by whom? Can you give another example of this? Is this a special condition that applies only to God, or can it produce other verified knowledge?

Verified by you! Does it matter if it is verifiable by anyone else, as long as you know it's true. Others on this site portray me as something I'm not, I know that I'm not like they say and as long as God and I know this it matters not, verifiable by God and myself, all that matters.

Belief without sight, either physically, mentally or otherwise, it is a beginning to belief and belief leads to knowledge. Faith is the first step in a process to knowledge of God.

This doesn’t strike you as an unreasonable thing for you to ask someone that has no idea what you’re talking about? I think you’re being insensitive to the fact that I literally don’t know anything about what a God is, at all.

I doubt that, I doubt there's anyone who hasn't heard of one god or the other and I know you have.

Just telling me to believe you isn’t going to help. I think you’re being a bit obtuse here. Surely there’s some method by which you can demonstrate the knowledge you claim to have.
I asked Rondee this same question, but she didn’t answer. I think both of you may have viewed it as a slight, but I think it’s fair.

I did not tell you to start with belief and neither does God, I said it all starts with faith, now you're starting to manipulate what I've stated, you're headed towards deconversion, sorry but God has verified Himself to me you have no chance against Him!
Faith in it's purest meaning and practice is trust, not belief or knowledge. Trusting that God is real has never hurt anyone, it has changed many lives for the good, to bad that's not what you are truly looking for nor do I believe it's your true intention. But, yes asking someone to trust is not some unreasonable, horrible thing, especially if it could make your life better, but hey that decision belongs solely to you.

How do you know that you are not delusional?

I'm as sane as most and more than some on this site, just look at the meds their on.

If this question was raised pertaining to another belief you hold, I don’t think you would be leery about answering it. From the perspective of somebody that cannot verify anything that you’re saying, you explaining how you know you’re not delusional can perhaps give me some better insight that would create such a false impression.

Exactly what belief, if you're going to compare physical to spiritual, you might as well get you an orange and call it a puppy. In God's eyes I am not the one deluded and for me that's what matters, sorry you do not see it that way, but hey that's another choice you have. Unlike not believing me, not believing God comes with consequences.

GC