RE: Detecting design or intent in nature
January 23, 2015 at 5:01 pm
(This post was last modified: January 23, 2015 at 5:09 pm by Chas.)
(January 23, 2015 at 3:33 pm)Heywood Wrote:(January 22, 2015 at 9:50 pm)IATIA Wrote: You are the one making the claim that intellect is required.
I am making these claims:
Claim A: Only one of the following two propositions can be true:Claim B: Observational evidence exists to support proposition 1.
- Proposition 1: All evolutionary systems require intellect to be implemented
- Proposition 2: Not all evolutionary systems require intellect to be implemented.
Claim C: No observational evidence exists to support proposition 2.
Now lets look at the claims. Claim A is obviously true because if one proposition is true it excludes the other. Claim B, Five Observations have been presented to support this claim. Claim C, We've looked for observational evidence to support this claim and have found none.
Conclusion: I conclude the observational evidence suggest proposition 1 is more likely to be true than proposition 2.
Your claims are utter bullshit because they are based on utter bullshit.
There is no system.
(January 23, 2015 at 4:03 pm)Heywood Wrote:(January 22, 2015 at 9:44 pm)Rhythm Wrote: "Things made by humans require the involvement of humans"
- "no shit".
I started to look for evolutionary systems which are not the result of human intellect but rather animal intellect. I can't think of any systems which animal intellects implement. However, animals do use evolution. A squirrel uses evolution to work around the obstacles placed before it to prevent it from robbing bird feeders. It does this by making repeated attempts at the course(replication). Its memory is the heritable characteristic. In each attempt it strategy changes a bit(change). It rejects changes which don't further the goal(selection).
This squirrel had to make many attempts to solve this obstacle course:
No, squirrels do not 'use' evolution. You really do not understand what evolution entails.
(January 23, 2015 at 4:15 pm)Heywood Wrote:(January 23, 2015 at 4:07 pm)Surgenator Wrote: Automobiles do not evolve. Automobiles come from automobile factories. Automobiles do not grow up to be automobile factories. Automobile factories do not mate with other factories to make automobiles.
Evolution doesn't require self reproduction only replication. If you think evolution requires self reproduction you do not understand evolution. Memetic evolution is a concept that has been around longer than you have been alive and memes do not self reproduce....but they do evolve. Why? Because they are replicated.
Nope. Evolution requires replication of replicators.
Quote:(January 23, 2015 at 4:07 pm)Surgenator Wrote: As an example of evolution without intellect, how about bacteria evolving to consume plastics or nylon. In both cases, humans didn't do any selection process or genetic engineering. This wasn't done is some science lab. The only thing humans did was throw away trash.
You are giving an example of the system of biological evolution. We have no observations of this system being implemented. It fails to support proposition 2.
There is no system.
Your whole thesis is presuppositional and circular. You assume, with no justification or basis, that evolution is a 'system', and 'systems' require implementation.
Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.
Science is not a subject, but a method.