(February 9, 2016 at 9:47 am)ChadWooters Wrote:(February 7, 2016 at 4:01 pm)Jenny A Wrote: Your fourth error is in thinking atheists don't believe in god for the purpose of avoiding god's stricter later.
I agree that the fourth is speculation although I do think it applies to most atheists even if only as a contributing factor.
Edited for relevance/brevity. Sorry, both of you.
Chad- we constantly say that we find "God's Laws", as written by priests and prophets of old, to be immoral, not just something we don't want to follow. It's a bit like someone from Eritrea telling you that the reason you find female genital mutilation immoral is because you "just don't want to obey the Laws of God". When you reply no, you find the practice abhorrent on its own, no matter what his God supposedly says about it, he replies, "No, you just don't want to obey God. At least, it's a contributing factor to your nonbelief."
What can you say to a person who accuses you of immorality because you don't follow his religious practices (because you find them degrading to women and the ridiculous vestiges of a Patriarchal culture that should have died out long ago, except for the religious part of that culture's memetic survival properties), and tells you that you are just being defiant of God?
The part that amazes me the most is that America is so culturally isolated, despite the modern communications age, that our Christians cannot even see that the same Bronze Age "values" you find abhorrent in other Mideast religions are also present in your own religion from the same region... yet no matter how many times we point it out, you continue to insist that you have moral clarity from (that one set of) scriptures that originated in that time/place/culture, and that it is we who cannot understand morality.
We understand just fine. Enough to reject Patriarchal morality-systems and try to press for ones that value all human beings equally, ones that don't involve blood-sacrifice-magic or genocide or slavery or destroying free speech via the Death Penalty (et cetera). The genetic roots of your faith are plain as day to anyone who reads your scriptures and compares them to others-- that's why we say the surest way to become an atheist is to really read the Bible.
A Christian told me: if you were saved you cant lose your salvation. you're sealed with the Holy Ghost
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
I replied: Can I refuse? Because I find the entire concept of vicarious blood sacrifice atonement to be morally abhorrent, the concept of holding flawed creatures permanently accountable for social misbehaviors and thought crimes to be morally abhorrent, and the concept of calling something "free" when it comes with the strings of subjugation and obedience perhaps the most morally abhorrent of all... and that's without even going into the history of justifying genocide, slavery, rape, misogyny, religious intolerance, and suppression of free speech which has been attributed by your own scriptures to your deity. I want a refund. I would burn happily rather than serve the monster you profess to love.
