(January 17, 2017 at 6:52 pm)Godschild Wrote: There is no proof of one species evolving into another and there are a lot of scientist who disagree about evolution and do not draw the same conclusions. There are many scientist who do not even believe in evolution. We weren't talking about method, you were the one who brought up demonstrable. I brought up an example that's not demonstrable, no different than you did. I certainly didn't bring it up to confuse our discussion.There are countless examples of one species evolving into another, it has even been observed in modern times. Creationists try to get around this by claiming that it's not a case of one "kind" becoming another, such as dog giving birth to cats. That's not what the theory of evolution predicts, so of course it never happens. Between genetics and archeology the evidence is so clear that the 'proof' you demand is in the form of the various trees of life, all of which map onto one another accurately and show the lineages for most --if not all-- of modern species.
Quote:I understand the point you're trying to make but, you did not address what I was saying, I've seen and heard about many and none of those has a book anything like the Bible, especially one that the god of their religion tells them exactly who he/she is and those gods have changed over time. The God of the Bible is unchanging as He said.When I say denomination I mean that the major religions are all fragmented into many smaller groups. They share many basic beliefs but differ in others, and some of those disagreements are sufficient to cause enmity and even bloodshed between them. And in this, Christianity is just like the rest. As for God being unchanging, the Yahweh of the old testament is a very different god from the Jesus of the new. Then again, "unchanging" is another of those words that can be defined, interpreted, and applied as needed to 'prove' the point to each believer's satisfaction.
As for denomination I'm guessing you were referring to Christianity and as far as I know all but the fringe denominations (those that most protestant denomination do not accept, Latter Day Saints and ect.) believe the same things about God and that He is unchanging. Yes there are disagreements on certain matters mostly small in how the Christian church is run.
Quote:You tell me when you did, I would think if you were seeking God you were confronted with conviction and refused to follow through on that conviction, you might deny it but I'm betting you remember. God will extend His grace to those who seek even to those He knows will refuse the conviction that come from the Holy Spirit. Everyone who seeks will have their chance, God makes sure of this so no one can deny they were given a chance.See, this is what I mean. You can't explain how someone does this, otherwise you might not have a way out if I say that I took those steps. No matter how I would explain my experiences as a believer you will insist that somewhere I took a misstep or failed to follow the formula. You need this in order to sustain your belief structure, but I don't. To you, this is evidence that your beliefs are true. To me, it's clear that they're not because you need to invent a scenario for me in order to support your view.
Quote:They had choice and chose self over God and all have regretted their choice, they've lost everything and didn't care who they have taken with them. This should have been a warning to others just how powerful and deceptive the self is. People feel wanting because they want what God knows isn't good for them, the self is deceptive and far from omniscient. Remember those who have rejected God have regretted the choice.That doesn't address what I said. Think about how impressive you believe god to be, and how you would feel if you were allowed in his presence. How powerful he would be, how wise, how intelligent, how loving. Do you think that you could ever turn your back on him? After all, you are possessed of the same self that those others were, and you say the self is deceptive and not all-knowing. If they could do it, you could do it. If you cannot possibly do it, then they could not possibly have done it.
Quote:That's called sin, rejecting God's will in your life is sin and it's not rejection of Him. Children reject what parents know is best for their lives but that doesn't mean they reject their parents.They understood that turning their backs on him meant death. They rejected what god offered on pain of death, ergo they rejected him.
Quote:Look at what's recorded in the Bible it's all there. I've even explained it in my last post. Free will, choice. If those who do not want to live in eternity with Him they only have to say no. God want and hasn't forced anyone to accept eternal life with Him. This is played out in the Bible from Genesis to Revelation.I'm going to assume you don't have specific examples, then?
Quote:Just how do you know this, where has this information come from, I know it's not in the scriptures, I know them well enough to say this. God cares because He created us and calls us His most important creation. God gave His Son for us, I know this doesn't mean anything to you however it does to hundreds of millions, it really makes no sense to me how a small percentage of the people on this planet believes the rest are wrong. I know, I know science, yet science hasn't answered the most important things in life, why, because those are not answerable by science.No religion has a majority of the population on its side. Many religious people will dismiss others as not being "true" members of their faith when it is convenient. So it seems that if there was a god the best he is able to do is convince a small percentage to find salvation. This flies in the face of any claim that he wishes for everyone to be saved. Nothing is impossible for god except doing the one thing that would show how loving he claims to be.
Quote:My God has no flaws, you might try and give Him flaws but, that doesn't't make it so, just your flawed opinion. The Holy Spirit makes sure those who will love God receives the grace they desire. I will agree all other gods are made up, they are there so people can deceive themselves into believing God doesn't exist. The gods of self, money, science even the ones made of wood and stone will lead to eternal punishment.Yahweh is jealous, angry, violent, vengeful, petty, a poor planner... the list goes on. Many Christians don't deny his flaws. They prefer to justify them by placing him on a level of his own where his flaws aren't flaws because he transcends laws and morals. But put a human in that role and he would be history's greatest villain. His status as an invented deity is partly shown by his specialty-- he is Jehovah, God of Armies. He is originally a war god, part of a pantheon of gods. Otherwise we must accept that one of the descriptors that he gave to himself was the personification of war itself. A very different god than the one that personifies love in the new testament.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould