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Who was "he" talking to?
RE: Who was "he" talking to?
(January 24, 2017 at 5:15 am)Godschild Wrote: The Israelites of the OT believed in the coming messiah.
But they don't believe that Jesus was it, and therefore do not recognize him as god.

Quote:The Jehovah's Witnesses is not many denominations.
They are one of many.  And although they have modified the Bible for their own convenience, the reason they and other denominations claim that Jesus is not god is because there are sufficient verses in the NT to support the claim.  Possibly even more than support the reverse.  This is one of the problems with the Bible, that it leaves many details open to interpretations that are sometimes contradictory and quite important.

Quote:First off you've made this statement on other occasions and yet haven't given any biblical proof or proof of any kind that there is any truth to this statement.
I'm not sure which statement you are referring to.  I say that God hides because he does not reveal himself plainly, as the Bible claims he did in the past.  There is no reason to think that he is prevented from doing so, therefore I can only assume that he is concealing himself.  If he were to reveal himself it would not force my decision, it would inform my decision.  Why would God leave out such a crucial piece of information when my eternal soul depended on my choice?

Quote:That is what I said in an earlier post and I said it because you were saying the opposite. An example of this is when you said Adam and Eve rejected God by sinning.
Adam and Eve were not bound by sin; they were perfect.  The only rule that God gives them is not to eat from a specific tree.  The fruit does not appear to have been poisonous and its only effect was to give them more knowledge, so the rule was designed to show their acceptance of God as their sovereign.  Instead, they decided to follow the suggestion of a lowly snake over the command of God.  Hence, they rejected him.  He was no longer their God-- the serpent was.

Quote:You're right it takes a willful act of rejection and never returning to God and this is what Satan and the fallen angels did. Adam and Eve did not do this, the evidence for this is God's seeking them out after they had sinned against Him. He knew what they had done, yet He called out to them as a parent to a child, wanting them to come out of hiding and face Him. He made them cloths to hide their nakedness, this is the first deaths that occurred in God's creation. God himself had to take the lives of the animals it took to make their clothes, the first blood split because of sin God had to do it and He also personally split the last blood for sin. Ironic, no it was the plan that had to be because of sin. You really think God would have done this for them if they were going to reject Him, no and why blood had paid for their sin, now you know why there was a requirement of blood for sin and why it's referred to as the covering. You might not see this as a story of the beauty and heart of our loving God but, I do. This story is why the whole Bible has to be true.
I see it as a moral fable, or multiple moral fables mashed into one.  We can see the effects of Adam and Eve's rejection of God in two ways-- he curses them and removes them from the garden and into a life that will be painful and difficult, and he does not remove their death sentence.  His other actions are more human than godlike and open up some other questions, such as why nudity was such an issue that even God decided he had to kill animals to provide them with loin coverings.

Quote:By the way the Bible never says Adam and Eve willfully turned away from God forever, that's something you have either been taught or made up yourself.
It's not difficult to reason it out, as I've been doing.  He gave them a rule with very dire consequences, and they broke it deliberately.  I see that as a rejection of God.

Quote:Do you really believe Judas would have turned on Jesus if he knew these things,
I think your explanation is pretty good, but let's assume that Judas felt that Jesus was not the messiah and decided to betray him for this reason.  We still have three years of witnessing Jesus perform miracles and give talks that left crowds awestruck.  Judas either saw or heard of Jesus resurrecting the dead, healing the blind, feeding multitudes with a few fish and loaves, turning water to wine, and so on.  He either saw or heard of the time that Jesus read the thoughts of the Pharisees and healed a paralytic man!  Why did it apparently take the events of Jesus' crucifixion to finally open his eyes?  It's one of the stranger things in the Bible, that a man who saw and experienced the things he did nonetheless sold out Jesus.  How many people do you know that would spend three years with Jesus and not be absolutely convinced that he was God?

Quote:How can you say those things without coming to know God. When one comes to believe, God will reveal the most wonderful being, himself! He will give you the understanding you need, He will show you the truth of who He really is, you want have to rely on your own false perceptions or what others tell you, be they Christian or otherwise. I could explain to some degree why God allows many things that seem distasteful to us but, I'm sure you've heard many of them and besides who better to help you understand than God himself, the omniscient One.
I 'knew God' in the manner you described for many years, and knew many people who also did.  To know God in this manner is to put aside any reasoning or thoughts that might cast doubt on his existence.  And that never made sense to me, even as a worshipper of God.  How can anyone not know God?  How can reason or logic not lead us straight to God?  Yet so many theists that I knew felt that 'to think for yourself' was dangerous and might lead away from God.  The only way this is possible is if God does not exist.

Quote:God is above our judgment, as I have quoted from the Bible before, what right has the clay to tell the potter what it should be. What right has the vessel to say to the potter why would you treat me so. The answer is an obvious one, none.
What this proves is that God is above our judgment due to his power.  God is absolute power and thus can do as he pleases and we have no recourse but to accept it.  That is different from claiming that all he does is good, but it works out in the same way.  But to recognize this is to recognize the scary part of it, which I mentioned before.

Quote:I do not assume that heaven will be anything other than the most awesome and peaceful place to live, I k own it will be because it is promised and God has been truthful with me always. I do not have to doubt, God has never given me reason to doubt.
You say it would be good to know a loving God but, how can you if you are going to always stand in judgment of Him. You can't find something you are judging, it takes all your time to criticize Him for who He isn't and refuse to allow Him to show you who He is.
A righteous, just, and loving God would invite judgment; he would have nothing to fear from it.  A God that follows the moral precepts that he gives to us would be easier to trust than one who does as he pleases and expects me to accept that under the threat of eternal pain.  God is not bound by our morals and laws, so he could decide to make heaven less than awesome and we would be helpless to do anything about it.  Not only that, if we even thought that his actions were questionable he might send us to hell.  You trust that God will act a certain way, but God's nature means he is not limited in any way-- he would still be 'good' if he did things that you don't expect him to do.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."

-Stephen Jay Gould
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Messages In This Thread
Who was "he" talking to? - by Idontbelieveit - January 2, 2017 at 7:17 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Loading Please Wait - January 2, 2017 at 7:22 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by LostLocke - January 2, 2017 at 7:33 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by GUBU - January 5, 2017 at 5:21 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Natachan - January 16, 2017 at 8:26 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by vorlon13 - January 2, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Chad32 - January 2, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by ignoramus - January 2, 2017 at 8:45 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Astonished - January 2, 2017 at 8:51 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by brewer - January 2, 2017 at 10:37 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Lek - January 3, 2017 at 11:12 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Astonished - January 3, 2017 at 11:26 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 4, 2017 at 1:34 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Astonished - January 4, 2017 at 1:39 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 4, 2017 at 1:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Astonished - January 4, 2017 at 2:28 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 4, 2017 at 2:29 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 4, 2017 at 2:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 4, 2017 at 6:30 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Astonished - January 4, 2017 at 2:10 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 4, 2017 at 4:53 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 4, 2017 at 8:37 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 5, 2017 at 12:40 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 5, 2017 at 6:55 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 5, 2017 at 9:05 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by GUBU - January 8, 2017 at 9:31 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 5, 2017 at 2:09 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 6, 2017 at 7:20 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 6, 2017 at 12:15 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 6, 2017 at 7:50 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 8, 2017 at 9:35 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 9, 2017 at 12:19 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 9, 2017 at 7:30 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 9, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 9, 2017 at 4:40 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 9, 2017 at 10:15 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 9, 2017 at 6:56 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 9, 2017 at 7:30 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 10, 2017 at 8:14 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 10, 2017 at 4:38 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 11, 2017 at 7:25 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 9:58 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 12, 2017 at 9:04 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 12, 2017 at 10:29 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 13, 2017 at 8:54 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Crossless1 - January 13, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 13, 2017 at 1:43 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 14, 2017 at 9:41 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 14, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 15, 2017 at 6:59 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 16, 2017 at 6:33 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 16, 2017 at 6:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 16, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by chimp3 - January 16, 2017 at 9:21 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 17, 2017 at 12:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 16, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 16, 2017 at 7:16 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 17, 2017 at 7:48 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 17, 2017 at 6:52 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 19, 2017 at 7:50 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 20, 2017 at 4:11 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 21, 2017 at 10:29 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 21, 2017 at 7:08 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 24, 2017 at 5:15 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 25, 2017 at 8:01 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 28, 2017 at 3:52 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - January 30, 2017 at 10:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 1, 2017 at 4:58 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Tonus - February 7, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 13, 2017 at 7:08 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 14, 2017 at 3:06 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 4, 2017 at 3:14 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 27, 2017 at 1:53 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Secular Elf - January 11, 2017 at 2:50 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by rexbeccarox - January 9, 2017 at 12:46 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 9, 2017 at 3:02 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by vorlon13 - January 4, 2017 at 2:32 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Alex K - January 4, 2017 at 6:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by TheRealJoeFish - January 4, 2017 at 5:52 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Bravo - January 5, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 6, 2017 at 10:12 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 7, 2017 at 1:32 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 9, 2017 at 12:56 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 5, 2017 at 12:33 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by downbeatplumb - January 5, 2017 at 1:59 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 5, 2017 at 6:28 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by downbeatplumb - January 6, 2017 at 12:51 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 6, 2017 at 4:33 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by downbeatplumb - January 11, 2017 at 2:24 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by GUBU - January 12, 2017 at 5:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Wyrd of Gawd - January 20, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Drich - January 6, 2017 at 12:21 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Catholic_Lady - January 6, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 6, 2017 at 10:33 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by ignoramus - January 7, 2017 at 3:09 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 9, 2017 at 9:53 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by ignoramus - January 10, 2017 at 3:19 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 10, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 1:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 11, 2017 at 1:43 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by GUBU - January 11, 2017 at 1:28 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 11, 2017 at 2:17 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 7:51 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Secular Elf - January 18, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 18, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Edwardo Piet - January 11, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Catholic_Lady - January 11, 2017 at 1:26 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 10:10 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 11, 2017 at 1:41 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 11, 2017 at 1:56 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 10:29 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Edwardo Piet - January 11, 2017 at 10:35 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 11, 2017 at 10:50 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Edwardo Piet - January 11, 2017 at 10:14 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Edwardo Piet - January 11, 2017 at 10:53 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 11, 2017 at 8:28 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - January 14, 2017 at 11:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - January 14, 2017 at 4:30 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 14, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - January 14, 2017 at 5:01 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - January 14, 2017 at 8:18 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 15, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 15, 2017 at 7:06 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by robvalue - January 16, 2017 at 7:09 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - January 19, 2017 at 12:19 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Minimalist - January 20, 2017 at 11:32 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - February 1, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Wyrd of Gawd - February 5, 2017 at 6:15 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 6, 2017 at 10:50 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Wyrd of Gawd - February 6, 2017 at 10:53 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 7, 2017 at 1:23 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - February 7, 2017 at 1:26 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 7, 2017 at 1:54 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Aroura - February 7, 2017 at 1:27 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Cyberman - February 7, 2017 at 9:24 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - February 7, 2017 at 1:55 am
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by Godschild - February 11, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: Who was "he" talking to? - by The Grand Nudger - February 13, 2017 at 11:50 pm

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