Hmm well when we talk then aren't we kind of thinking aloud?
And the thoughts in the back of our head aren't noticed while we are talking?
And what I mean is if we can choose our thoughts then how can we; we other thoughts? Don't see how that would work.
And as you say; if we can't choose our thoughts (I don't believe we can); then where does the choice come in?
How do we know we don't just do and say stuff and merely think we have a 'choice'?
And if there is no evidence of 'choice' then what is the null-hypothesis: Choice or no choice?
And if there IS evidence of 'choice'; then what is it? How do we know we dont' merely THINK we have choice: And that those thoughts we THINK - we don't have choice in either. It is just a pyschological effect and all we have is evitability?
And on a similar note: I do think that free will is completely impossible and cotradictary to DETERMINISM.
But I don't think indeterminism implies free will: It simply leaves it open as a possibility.
Because if determism means a certain thing WILL happen. Then you have no choice in the matter and have no 'free will' or 'choice'.
Indeterminism simply means there are many alternative outcomes that really COULD happen right? And it could go any of those ways?
Now it could be as much as infinite but to simplify lets say there are 3 choices A, B and C (rather than one unavoidable X that is determinism).
It could indeed go to A, it could indeed go to B, it could indeed go to C.
And after one of those outcomes is reached, e.g; C. You could talk about how it could have also went one of the other ways and one of the other outcomes could have came about instead.
But how exactly does this imply that you could have 'free will' and consciously CHOOSE A, B, or C? Or indeed have any free 'choice' or 'will' on it at all and how it happens?
Where Determism just leaves an unescapable route where there is no free will possible; indeterminism I believe makes it possible simply because there are other possible outcomes. With only one outcome that MUST happen there is no free will. With indeterminism - with more possible outcomes; - there is certainly an open possibility of free will. But where exactly is it implied at all? And where is the evidence for 'free will' rather than just evitability?
EvF
And the thoughts in the back of our head aren't noticed while we are talking?
And what I mean is if we can choose our thoughts then how can we; we other thoughts? Don't see how that would work.
And as you say; if we can't choose our thoughts (I don't believe we can); then where does the choice come in?
How do we know we don't just do and say stuff and merely think we have a 'choice'?
And if there is no evidence of 'choice' then what is the null-hypothesis: Choice or no choice?
And if there IS evidence of 'choice'; then what is it? How do we know we dont' merely THINK we have choice: And that those thoughts we THINK - we don't have choice in either. It is just a pyschological effect and all we have is evitability?
And on a similar note: I do think that free will is completely impossible and cotradictary to DETERMINISM.
But I don't think indeterminism implies free will: It simply leaves it open as a possibility.
Because if determism means a certain thing WILL happen. Then you have no choice in the matter and have no 'free will' or 'choice'.
Indeterminism simply means there are many alternative outcomes that really COULD happen right? And it could go any of those ways?
Now it could be as much as infinite but to simplify lets say there are 3 choices A, B and C (rather than one unavoidable X that is determinism).
It could indeed go to A, it could indeed go to B, it could indeed go to C.
And after one of those outcomes is reached, e.g; C. You could talk about how it could have also went one of the other ways and one of the other outcomes could have came about instead.
But how exactly does this imply that you could have 'free will' and consciously CHOOSE A, B, or C? Or indeed have any free 'choice' or 'will' on it at all and how it happens?
Where Determism just leaves an unescapable route where there is no free will possible; indeterminism I believe makes it possible simply because there are other possible outcomes. With only one outcome that MUST happen there is no free will. With indeterminism - with more possible outcomes; - there is certainly an open possibility of free will. But where exactly is it implied at all? And where is the evidence for 'free will' rather than just evitability?
EvF
