'Seeking' God

[lucent]

Believers tell atheists to seek God because we're hoping that you will find him, but really, when I began defending this argument I suddenly saw how insulting it must be for someone to say, "seek God" like you never once tried it. Which is why I rephrased my own advice by saying "with the intention to follow" but if you never have the intention to follow, the intention to defend, then the whole thing should be ignored, the search is pointless.

Since you have already made it clear that you have no intention of seeking or following God, then I retract my statement "seek god with the intention to follow and you will find him." It was a weak attempt to encourage you, but you are already firm in your beliefs.

I don't think you need any clarification about the homosexuality thread.

I have already explained the process for belief and how to change belief. I don't know what else I can say to help you. I believe you're fully capable of understanding me.

The part I didn't understand was you saying I could control my beliefs, or some such. I'm not really sure what you're suggesting.

However, on the whole, I'm fairly satisfied with your answer. What I'd like to clarify is that having acknowledged that the passage is insulting and not applicable to almost all atheists for reasons you yourself have explained above, that you'll no longer be quoting it at people. And that if it ever comes up among fellow Christians, that you're going to educate them on how much of a fallacy it is, and why it is so thoroughly unconvincing, so that some way down the line, some atheist will be spared from being patronised with it.

I'm not satisfied with your later claim in this thread that 'one of the religions MUST be right, but which?' since that is quite an absurd notion. I submit that as you say, they can't all be right, but they can all be wrong, which seems to me the most likely option.

---

A. Acknowledge the possibility that you could be wrong.

B. Allow for the possibility that Jesus was a historical person. This is something almost all scholars acknowledge as true. Even Richard Dawkins admits He was a real person.

This leaves two possibilities. Either his claims were untrue and he is dead and buried. Or, His claims are true, He is alive, and will hear your prayers. Which leads to:

C. Allow for the possibility that His claims might be true

You don't have to believe this 100 percent, but just allow for the possibility. Then you can meaningfully seek Him out.

Ideally, through prayer, reading the bible, and attending church. If you are unwilling to do all of those things, at the least through prayer. This is what I recommend:

"Jesus, if you're real, please let me know. If you're God, please reveal it to me. Please lead me to the truth"

Right away or some time, it depends on how God will lead you.

He'll let you know, and you won't have any doubt it was from God.

You really can't see what a laughable answer that is? Your brain has been severely addled, sir.

Firstly, it did not address the most important thing, that being how I can go about forcing myself to believe in something. I always allow for the possibility that I COULD be wrong, however on the weight of the evidence presented so far, I feel confident that I am quite right on this issue. How does acknowledging that Jesus was a real person have any bearing on making myself believe in God? Did you even read my questions, or just peddle out the first thing that came to mind? One more time: How can I force myself to believe in something that I don't believe in, and if I have managed to do that, what's the point in the search, since I already believe?

I won't be trying prayer, because it doesn't work. I am reading the Bible for research purposes. I won't be going to church because it's a waste of time. This really gets at the crux of the matter, lucent, and it's worth reading this twice if it helps it to sink in. You should stop quoting the verse at people, because in asking folks to seek God, you're asking them to do things that they cannot (force themselves to believe) and/or have no inclination to (go to church etc) do. How stupid is your God that he would only reveal himself to people willing and able to doublethink in this way, and go out of their way to do things they don't wish to do, in a 'search' that could last a day or a lifetime and is only ended by some unspecified event, that really is just the first thing that the long suffering seeker cares to ascribe to God (probably for the sole purpose of ending their fucking search!)? That's your God's fault, not mine.

The last two things I have already addressed in my responses to salty. No information whatsoever. 'Oh, it'll happen at some point, and you'll just know'. Like I said, it's a way for you to tell those who don't 'find' God that they need to search longer, or harder.

Answer me this: At what point would you acknowledge that a search has failed? Indeed, is there EVER a time when you say 'no, this clearly hasn't worked for you'. And if so, is it ever God's fault, or always the fault of the seeker? I sense I already know the answers to these questions, but humour me.

This is your problem, and the problem of every other atheist I've spoken to. You refuse to do the one thing that God promised would yield results. Instead, you want to go about it your own way, and do it the way you think it should be done, to obtain the results that you want, according to what you believe God should be doing for you. This is exactly why you don't know God exists.

The reason you don't know God is precisely because you don't know the right way. Instead of listening to people who do know Him, and can instruct you how to find Him, who would intervene on your behalf, you think you're the one who knows better. Well you're obviously no expert.

If you're open to the possibility, you've given no indication here. This isn't rocket science, and you don't have to force yourself to believe anything. It's an incredibly simple concept anyone can follow.

Give God the benefit of the doubt that He does exist and ask Him directly to reveal the truth to you. Humble yourself, get down on your knees, and pray to God and ask Him earnestly for the truth. Ask Him for guidence and ask Him for faith.

You say "prayer doesn't work", but that's your assumption based on your belief that God doesn't exist. If you're seeking God obviously you have to allow for the possibility that prayer does work.

It's great that you're reading the bible, and hopefully you'll get something out of it. Try prayer and ask God for revelation as well. What do you have to lose?