[split] VckyRo pontificates about Communism (the kind with a big C)

[VyckRo]

A lot of Christians say that atheism, particularly Stalinism, has killed more people then religious conflicts. I wouldn't yet say that I am a full-fledged atheist, but is this true? PLEASE note that this question is not meant to offend anyone on these forums; I'm just looking for the truth on this issue.

Well, I assume you're thinking about Nazis and the communists, so let me point out why it would be wrong to conflate the killings committed in the name of either ideology with atheism.

Nazis- This one is easier, so I'll just say it. The Nazis weren't atheists. Granted, many of the higher-ups in the Nazi Party were adherents to a bizarre form of paganism, and the religion of Hitler himself is up to debate, but it's clear that as soon as they took power, they effectively banned anti-religious movements (surprisingly, even before the Nuremberg Laws), and it's clear that a big part of the public acceptance of such a raving anti-semite is due to the fact that Christianity made it acceptable to hate Jews for many centuries (remember Christians claiming that the Jews were responsible for Christ's death?)

Communism- Of course, all the brutal leaders of the Communist movements were atheists (like Stalin or Chairman Mao), but It would be an oversimplification to claim that their brutality is due to atheism. In essence, when there were persecutions, almost never were they solely against those who follow religion, but religious followers are usually seen as one of a long list of "enemies of the state."

Accidental I arrived at this post, I could not refrain myself not to answer!

It is typical for atheists, when this problem is mentioned to throw us a red herring in the face.

In the issue of Communism / Atheism Rev.Rye
he start by draging a smelly fish through the room "Nazis" I personally remember some discussion where atheist as the late Christopher Hitchens or the famous Richard Dawkins, were asked about communism or Stalin!
And they response that Hitler, Hitler was not an atheist
FACEPLAM

I propose to return to the original sources:

The Attitude of the Workers’ Party to Religion
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/wo...may/13.htm

Socialism and Religion
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/wo...dec/03.htm
See also:
1)The Union of Belligerent Atheists or The League of the Militant Godless
2)Gosateizm

"Marx's philosophy" was based on some philosophical concepts that he took over from
Feuerebach and Engels

Ludwig Feuerbach believe that religion, depleted the man, and the faith in God, expresses the man weakness the poverty and the human slavery. So humanity must be liberated from this burden

And after Friedrich Engels, religion is the human authority for a capitalist regime.From these two concepts Marx, began to weave his ideology!

From that up to "Gosateizm" was only one step! The idea that the evil called "religion" must be stopped by any way led to the greatest atrocities in human history.
The obsession that if "we do not do something", and quickly, humanity will slip into a "dark age", obsessed the atheist of the French Revolution, Paris Commune, the atheist minds during the Cultural Revolution from China, the communist period in Russia ( see the example whit Albania) of the Mexican Constitution and anti-clerical laws from 1917 and the regime of Plutarco Elías Calles, the history of the atheistic regimes (state Atheism) is one of the bloodiest in human history.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

As an atheist, I think the influence of religion on human behaviour is miniscule.

Actually 'as an atheist' you think no such thing. Atheism has no opinion on ANYTHING other then the existence of gods,period.

However,as a skeptic and realist, I think you're probably right. I think it's more likely human beings have always used religion to justify literally ANY behaviour,no matter how vile,and continue to do so.

A lot of Christians say that atheism, particularly Stalinism, has killed more people then religious conflicts

So I believe. That makes a lot Christians ignoramuses. Now THERE'S a shock.

[Jackalope]

The argument that Stalin killed millions in the name of or because of atheism is laughable.

Was Stalin an atheist? Probably, yes. As the leader of the Soviet Union, was he responsible for the deaths of millions? Yes. Were those killings motivated by Stalin's atheism or by the victim's theology or lack thereof? No.

[VyckRo]

A lot of Christians say that atheism, particularly Stalinism, has killed more people then religious conflicts

So I believe. That makes a lot Christians ignoramuses. Now THERE'S a shock.

Atheists boast that they are smarter, and they love technology and science.

just look here, you are trapped. The ignoramuses Christians used the bow, the sword and the stake, for witches ...smarter atheist as Stalin and Pol Pot came and used the machine gun.

See? Is unescapable ...

---

The argument that Stalin killed millions in the name of or because of atheism is laughable.

Read the links

[Jackalope]

The argument that Stalin killed millions in the name of or because of atheism is laughable.

Read the links

Neither of those links address Stalin in any way, shape or form. You appear to be making the argument that since Lenin and Stalin were both communists, that words written by Lenin can be used to divine what Stalin thought. Fail.

I don't doubt for a second that Stalin's form of communism was very hostile to religion. However, the vast majority of deaths attributable to Stalin are a result of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and were politically motivated.

[houseofcantor]

A lot of Christians say that atheism, particularly Stalinism, has killed more people then religious conflicts. I wouldn't yet say that I am a full-fledged atheist, but is this true? PLEASE note that this question is not meant to offend anyone on these forums; I'm just looking for the truth on this issue.

Completely ridiculous. Killing people is not a job for "lack of belief;" ya gotta be some kind of believer to kill another.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

Atheists boast that they are smarter, and they love technology and science.

Bullshit

I have never claimed any of those things, nor do I know any atheist who does. .

I'm aware I'm smarter than SOME believers and atheists,and not as smart as many. Wiling to bet the same applies to you.

I do NOT love technology per se,it simply provides many of the tools I use to make my life easier and to keep me alive.

Nor do I love science.However, science DOES provide me with a lot of probable explanations fora vast range of questions. Religion provides no answers,just questions,unless of course one is willing to believe the most arrant nonsense without credible evidence.

[VyckRo]

The argument that Stalin killed millions in the name of or because of atheism is laughable.

Read the links

I don't doubt for a second that Stalin's form of communism was very hostile to religion. However, the vast majority of deaths attributable to Stalin are a result of the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union and were politically motivated.

no Comment:

[Minimalist]

Given the butt-buddy relationship between the orthodox church and the Romanov dynasty I can certainly see why the Russian revolutionaries would have been royally pissed at churches. The same thing happened in France in 1789 with the catholics and they deserved it too.

Nonetheless, Stalin killed a bunch of Ukrainian Kulaks because of forced collectivization - not because they believed in some half-assed god and he didn't.

[Minimalist]

And they response that Hitler, Hitler was not an atheist
FACEPLAM

"I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the Almighty Creator. By warding off the Jews I am fighting for the Lord's work."

[Adolph Hitler, Speech, Reichstag, 1936]

I submit that these sentiments would make him one shitty "atheist." However, given the centuries long tendency of xtians to murder jews it does make him a fine xtian.