The Bible

[Phil]

I'm pretty tempted to show you his logic for thinking I was still a theist. It was pretty imaginative to say the least...

If you really think that was my only reason, you are stupider than I thought.

[NoMoreFaith]

I'm pretty tempted to show you his logic for thinking I was still a theist. It was pretty imaginative to say the least...

It's irrelevant, either the points and posts you raise, are valid, or they are made up.
If they were invalid, even if they voiced the same opinion as me, I would feel the need to point it out.
Even if you were a theist, pretending to be atheist, then your posts still stand and fall on their own merit.

[Norfolk And Chance]

I believe Fallen to Reason is genuine in his claims to be now an atheist, and I can smell fakes a mile off.

[Phil]

I believe Fallen to Reason is genuine in his claims to be now an atheist, and I can smell fakes a mile off.

This from a guy that doesn't understand planks of wood and Crustaceans are not human.

[Sciwoman]

I don't know about the social construct in your life Phil, but you can't just drop the disbelief bomb on 80% of your born-again Christian friends. Social suicide.

This is very true. When I left the fundamentalist church to return to catholicism (on my way to becoming an atheist), I lost every friend I had and my entire social support structure. When you have been that enmeshed in a certain church and religion, even leaving for another can have huge consequences. Coming out as an atheist has the very real potential to turn your life into a living nightmare of harassment, threats of violence, actual violence, property damage, and poisoned pets, just for starters.

[Undeceived]

Those are probably the largest non-creed issues right now. Luckily, neither has any bearing on means of salvation or the inerrancy of the the Bible.

It depends on whether you think Jesus lived and promoted the Law of Moses or not.

This has to be clarified. Jesus fulfilled, not promoted, the Law of Moses. Matthew 5:17, Jesus speaking: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them." He was the sacrificial lamb (read Isaiah 53). Just as the Hebrews were saved by the blood of the lamb on the first Passover, so Jesus' blood saved all mankind on a Passover. Jesus upheld the spirit of the law, rather than the old traditions. See Luke 6:1-5, Matthew 23:1-8 and Mark 2:23-28. He saw the reason behind the law, which he summed up in two commandments:
"The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than these.”
“Well said, teacher,” the man replied. “You are right in saying that God is one and there is no other but him. To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
(Mark 12:29-33)

Again, what does "means of salvation" even mean, its more than just accepting Jesus. Its about a change in the rules, a new way to salvation. We must assume there was one way before Jesus, and a new way afterwards.

Romans 4:1-8 describes how Abraham was saved:
What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. But what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
“Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”

The key words are “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” Abraham wasn’t made sinless by his actions, but by believing God. This is the same way Christians are saved in the New Testament. Have faith and God will forgive you. Since God transcends time, it doesn’t matter when Jesus made his sacrifice, as long as he did.

It’s true that people followed different laws in OT times, but most of those were added by man. The Halakha contains Talmudic and rabbinic law as well as Biblical law, plus hundreds of customs and traditions—such as how to wash, when and where to wash. The Bible simply says to wash. Washing symbolized the purification Jesus would give people when he died on the cross. It’s not that the works saved you, but that you proved your faith by doing them (“Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. -James 2:17). Believing in God’s forgiveness was their means of salvation, as well as ours today.

[NoMoreFaith]

Matthew also goes on to say that not one word should be stricken from the record.

Believing in God’s forgiveness was their means of salvation, as well as ours today.

If the means to salvation have not changed then Jesus's sacrifice is made irrelevant.

[Neo-Scholastic]

This has to be clarified. Jesus fulfilled, not promoted, the Law of Moses. Matthew 5:17, Jesus speaking: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them “

Romans 4:1-8 describes how Abraham was saved… God transcends time, it doesn’t matter when Jesus made his sacrifice, as long as he did.

1) Paul was not and apostle, though he claimed to be. 2) Paul’s exegesis is confined to his own Epistles. All other parts of the bible stress repentance, following the commandments and overcoming (as in 1 John and the Apocolypse).
3)Believing God was counted as a sign, or confirmation, of Abraham’s righteousness, not a onetime thought providing eternal security. Consider the plight of those that ‘blaspheme the Holy Spirit.’

Romans Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead. -James 2:17

How can a dead faith save? It’s dead. It has no life in it.

Believing in God’s forgiveness was their means of salvation, as well as ours today.

Salvation means more that a get-out-of-hell-free card. It also means deliverance from falsity, protection from evil, and internal peace in this world and the next. Christ leads us by his life, not his death.

[Norfolk And Chance]

This from a guy that doesn't understand planks of wood and Crustaceans are not human.

You kill me Phil, you kill me.

[Minimalist]

This has to be clarified. Jesus fulfilled, not promoted, the Law of Moses.

Where did you get that from? The gospel of St. Dickhead?