My perspective - truth or delusion?

[MysticKnight]

My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

My perspective is that we have a soul and we have the light of God as the foundation of that soul. It shines bright. The light of greatness, the light of beauty, is all pointing to absolute origin and basis.

The nobleness in goodness, shows a link to the divine. The authority of morality speaks of eternal basis.

My perspective is that this all spiritual knowledge. We are endowed with knowledge of God.

Now here is the question, if God exists and he is all these things, the source of morality, the eternal basis to it, the sun of the rays of greatness - this perspective would be based on reality right?

Now why wouldn't it be knowledge if he is all this? Why if a soul exists should we not believe in spiritual knowledge that the eyes of the soul can see.

Now suppose there is no God. What is the delusion? Where is it coming from? Why this false belief? Why does it seem morality needs an eternal basis? Why does it seem greatness points to eternal greatness? Why does it seem honor points to eternal honor?

Why does it seem I know morality to be true and that the noble spirit behind it is divine?

What exactly is the source of this delusion, that makes me feel like I know something I don't?

It seems it's only really possible to be a delusion, if God doesn't exist. But the way I perceive it - it seems like genuine knowledge.

Why does it seems morality needs an eternal basis? In fact without this eternal basis, we get people saying things like it comes down to survival or self interest.

The nobility of the spirit behind morality, the why, the should, the command, the authority - am I the only one perceives this as such?

Why shouldn't I make the choice to believe it's genuine knowledge? After all, in the case of God existing and he being as I described, the knowledge would justified.

So it seems the only way to tell me I am deluded is to assume God doesn't exist.

But why should I believe that?

[whateverist]

You shouldn't. There is no basis for testing any assertion about God, including the one that says 'He' doesn't exist. In the end I'm content to confess I don't know .. because I don't. For me, since I don't already have any real or imagined relationship with God, I also confess I have no belief in God. If I did, I might go right on in that relationship and confess that my hunch is that God exists. Either way, I wouldn't want to pull the wool over my own eyes by professing knowledge or surety that I don't really possess.

[genkaus]

(9th June 2012 06:56)MysticKnight Wrote:  My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

My perspective is that we have a soul and we have the light of God as the foundation of that soul. It shines bright. The light of greatness, the light of beauty, is all pointing to absolute origin and basis.

The nobleness in goodness, shows a link to the divine. The authority of morality speaks of eternal basis.

My perspective is that this all spiritual knowledge. We are endowed with knowledge of God.

Now here is the question, if God exists and he is all these things, the source of morality, the eternal basis to it, the sun of the rays of greatness - this perspective would be based on reality right?

Now why wouldn't it be knowledge if he is all this? Why if a soul exists should we not believe in spiritual knowledge that the eyes of the soul can see.

Now suppose there is no God. What is the delusion? Where is it coming from? Why this false belief? Why does it seem morality needs an eternal basis? Why does it seem greatness points to eternal greatness? Why does it seem honor points to eternal honor?

Why does it seem I know morality to be true and that the noble spirit behind it is divine?

What exactly is the source of this delusion, that makes me feel like I know something I don't?

It seems it's only really possible to be a delusion, if God doesn't exist. But the way I perceive it - it seems like genuine knowledge.

Why does it seems morality needs an eternal basis? In fact without this eternal basis, we get people saying things like it comes down to survival or self interest.

The nobility of the spirit behind morality, the why, the should, the command, the authority - am I the only one perceives this as such?

Why shouldn't I make the choice to believe it's genuine knowledge? After all, in the case of God existing and he being as I described, the knowledge would justified.

So it seems the only way to tell me I am deluded is to assume God doesn't exist.

But why should I believe that?

You said it all yourself. Its a delusion. Your mind is playing tricks on you making you think that those delusions are reality. The source of your delusion is your mind and your desire to believe in a god.

The thing about reality is, it is not determined by the choice of your beliefs. You can choose to believe all those things are true and justified, they'd still be delusions. Good news for you though, you are not alone in that delusion.

[cato123]

(9th June 2012 06:56)MysticKnight Wrote:  My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

Delusion to the point of being fuck all nuts. I didn't even bother reading the rest.

[FallentoReason]

MysticKnight Wrote:[bMy perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis[/b]. This eternal basis is the source of the nobility of the spirit behind goodness.

My perspective is that we have a soul and we have the light of God as the foundation of that soul. It shines bright. The light of greatness, the light of beauty, is all pointing to absolute origin and basis.

The nobleness in goodness, shows a link to the divine. The authority of morality speaks of eternal basis.

My perspective is that this all spiritual knowledge. We are endowed with knowledge of God.

Now here is the question, if God exists and he is all these things, the source of morality, the eternal basis to it, the sun of the rays of greatness - this perspective would be based on reality right?

Now why wouldn't it be knowledge if he is all this? Why if a soul exists should we not believe in spiritual knowledge that the eyes of the soul can see.

Now suppose there is no God. What is the delusion? Where is it coming from? Why this false belief? Why does it seem morality needs an eternal basis? Why does it seem greatness points to eternal greatness? Why does it seem honor points to eternal honor?

Why is it being assumed that these things are eternal? They are all human constructs that (as far as I'm concerned) came from evolution.

[NoMoreFaith]

Standard human tendency towards anthropomorphism. Giving physical and non-physical objects with personality.

You attribute morality an eternal source, you give it a substance and "person" behind it.

It's standard human instinct and comes from the same source as kicking a chair and calling it a son of a bitch when you stub your toe.

IMO.

[MysticKnight]

(9th June 2012 10:41)NoMoreFaith Wrote:  You attribute morality an eternal source, you give it a substance and "person" behind it.

Morality seems to be in need of "Person-hood" though. So if it needs eternal basis, that basis surely needs to be a Person.

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(9th June 2012 07:48)genkaus Wrote:  You said it all yourself. Its a delusion. Your mind is playing tricks on you making you think that those delusions are reality. The source of your delusion is your mind and your desire to believe in a god.

Here is the problem, this would be the case IF God doesn't exist. I can appreciate you believe that, but if God exists, and he is the eternal basis of morality, and so morality points to eternal basis, etc, why wouldn't it be knowledge?

To me spiritual knowledge is possible if we have a soul and God exists. So why I should I assume spiritual belief is always a delusion?

To me, it seems the logical thing to do, is to ask myself if it's genuine knowledge as opposed to simply a "hunch". But to be honest, to me I see these things like I see things with my physical eyes.

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(9th June 2012 08:52)FallentoReason Wrote:  Why is it being assumed that these things are eternal?

From my perspective, it's because God is the basis to these things, and hence that is their nature, and has given us knowledge of it. So that when we look at morality, greatness, we see an eternal basis to it. It rather seems like it would be a delusion if it didn't have an eternal basis. The eternal basis of these things also seems to be a person. It can't be some unconscious energy force.

[whateverist]

(9th June 2012 13:57)MysticKnight Wrote:  From my perspective, it's because God is the basis to these things, and hence that is their nature, and has given us knowledge of it. So that when we look at morality, greatness, we see an eternal basis to it. It rather seems like it would be a delusion if it didn't have an eternal basis. The eternal basis of these things also seems to be a person. It can't be some unconscious energy force.

And from my perspective it looks like you're just reading God in wherever you like. Far from being eternal, morality in terms of what we expect from one another, has changed much over time. Even today, while there are common themes which appear in the morality of many cultures, it is not everywhere the same. Shame is different than guilt for example. You seem to be in the throes of a naive and largely discredited Platonic idealism. If you're interested you might check wikipedia to see just how closely your point of view mirrors that one, and read the critiques it has received. It could change your point of view.

[MysticKnight]

(9th June 2012 15:05)whateverist Wrote:  And from my perspective it looks like you're just reading God in wherever you like. Far from being eternal, morality in terms of what we expect from one another, has changed much over time.

I know that society has changed over time, but I don't see how this goes against my view. If you recall, in the thread of justice/morality/greatness, I said our views don't have to be perfect in tune with God's, but has some sort of relationship to it, and that the more we "twist" from it, or "go away from it", the more "condemned" we are. We have all sorts of reasons we go against that link to God that are not simply due to untainted judgement.

Quote:You seem to be in the throes of a naive and largely discredited Platonic idealism. If you're interested you might check wikipedia to see just how closely your point of view mirrors that one, and read the critiques it has received. It could change your point of view.

I will do some more reading, but I'm aware my views are very close to platonic idealism and even my mystic understanding of our perceptions is almost the same as platonic forms (the only difference is that I see the ideal form of everything is ONE reality and not many).

[Welsh cake]

(9th June 2012 06:56)MysticKnight Wrote:  My perspective is that the nature of goodness is that it is linked to eternal basis.

0________0

First line in and you're not making any sense. I can't see much reason to continue reading when you start off an OP like that.

Sorry, I can't tell you whether you're delusion or not because I don't understand what you are going on about.