new thread for old RE: Atheists, what do you believe is the best argument for the existence of a deity?

[paulpablo]

honest answer that I believe anyone would give. To give that answer does not mean you believe in God but just shows you accept the power of personal experience even over Logic. The only caveat being if someone could shake your personal experience by convincing you that you imagined it.

Personal experience and logic arent exclusive things, my answer shows i believe if i was born over 2000 years ago and i viewed my personal experiences logically and i thought i saw jesus accend into heaven and then i thought i saw him rise from the dead id believe he was the son of god. Like i said unless somone showed me a flaw in my belief.
This answer is based on me trying to imagine what my thought process would be like minus all the education and knowledge ive recieved in my life, and trying to imagine im an illiterate uneducated fisherman in the middle east whos just seen a man accend into heaven then rise from the dead. I like to think i value my personal experiences and look upon them in a logical way.

[Mark 13:13]

honest answer that I believe anyone would give. To give that answer does not mean you believe in God but just shows you accept the power of personal experience even over Logic. The only caveat being if someone could shake your personal experience by convincing you that you imagined it.

Personal experience and logic arent exclusive things, my answer shows i believe if i was born over 2000 years ago and i viewed my personal experiences logically and i thought i saw jesus accend into heaven and then i thought i saw him rise from the dead id believe he was the son of god. Like i said unless somone showed me a flaw in my belief.
This answer is based on me trying to imagine what my thought process would be like minus all the education and knowledge ive recieved in my life, and trying to imagine im an illiterate uneducated fisherman in the middle east whos just seen a man accend into heaven then rise from the dead. I like to think i value my personal experiences and look upon them in a logical way.

that,s all true and that's all i was trying to say there was no hidden traps.

[paulpablo]

yeh i was just trying to say my answer doesnt show i value personal experience over logic it just shows the version of me born over 2000 years ago which is illiterate uneducated and a fish farmer would probably view personal experience over logic if the two things were in disagreement with each other.
Ive had things happen to me which i cant describe logically in recent times which when trying to think about what happened i havent jumped to a supernatural conclusion. Although admitedly none of these were as extreme as seeing a man ascend into heaven or seeing a dead man walking around.

[Mark 13:13]

yeh i was just trying to say my answer doesnt show i value personal experience over logic it just shows the version of me born over 2000 years ago which is illiterate uneducated and a fish farmer would probably view personal experience over logic if the two things were in disagreement with each other.
Ive had things happen to me which i cant describe logically in recent times which when trying to think about what happened i havent jumped to a supernatural conclusion. Although admitedly none of these were as extreme as seeing a man ascend into heaven or seeing a dead man walking around.

Glad you said that people can have these srt of experiences and I agree you still have a decision to make and as you say you have a choice which way to go but it does make you think. My own brother considers himself an athiest but he may be more on the agnostic athiest end of the scale but he told me a story of what happened to him.

He told me he was in the pub having a discussion about the subject of God and at some point in the discussion he said well if God exists I ask him to show me he does. That night he had a dream when he encountered something he said radiated so much love and brightness that it must have been God.

It didn't change his belief but it must create a niggle, he just passes it of as interesting.

I have always been interested in peoples experiences that are strange so i would love to hear them if you are comfortable with that . Either on this thread or privately.

[The Grand Nudger]

To quote a quiet favorite member of mine...that was entirely uninteresting fiction Mark.

[Mark 13:13]

To quote a quiet favorite member of mine...that was entirely uninteresting fiction Mark.

to quote the word of the very wise and efficient "watevah"

[Cinjin]

I'd estimate that two out of three people on this planet have "a strange story" or experience that they can lay on someone. It means nothing. The mind is a complex organ that is highly subject to the environment we put it in. ESPECIALLY when it comes to sleep and dreams.

I've had some seriously crazy fucking dreams that I "knew" were real. Guess what .... they weren't.


Try LSD or shrooms sometime. The uncontrolled mind is a powerful weapon when turned against itself.

[Mark 13:13]

I'd estimate that two out of three people on this planet have "a strange story" or experience that they can lay on someone. It means nothing. The mind is a complex organ that is highly subject to the environment we put it in. ESPECIALLY when it comes to sleep and dreams.

I've had some seriously crazy fucking dreams that I "knew" were real. Guess what .... they weren't.


Try LSD or shrooms sometime. The uncontrolled mind is a powerful weapon when turned against itself.

That was my brothers ; some of my unexplained events were not related to GOD but were definately of the supernatural variety and could not be associated with sleep as i was awake and going about normal day activities although one series could be explained by whats known by a phenomenon known as night terrors which is something science explains as a sleep disorder.

[The Grand Nudger]

"Definitely supernatural", I'd be thrilled to hear how you figured that out.

[A_Nony_Mouse]

Argument is worthless. Only physical evidence matters.